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1

Friday, May 18th 2012, 9:25am

DI Profile + Power Amp + Cab: Does it feel like the real deal?

Hi All, I am almost certainly going to be a Kemper owner in the next few weeks :) . However was wondering how the kemper + power amp feels works as a replacement for a tube head?

For example, if I DI profile a JCM 800 head and use the Kemper + a Solid State Power amp into a 4X12 Marshall Cab, will it sound the same as the JCM 800 head directly into the same 4X12 Marshall Cab? I am willing to accept that it might not be 100% exact, but from your experiences does this method sound as raw, dynamic, alive and "in the room" as playing the real head + cab?

Would appreciate your inputs and tips!

Thanks!

2

Friday, May 18th 2012, 12:43pm

RE: DI Profile + Power Amp + Cab: Does it feel like the real deal?

Hi All, I am almost certainly going to be a Kemper owner in the next few weeks :) . However was wondering how the kemper + power amp feels works as a replacement for a tube head?

For example, if I DI profile a JCM 800 head and use the Kemper + a Solid State Power amp into a 4X12 Marshall Cab, will it sound the same as the JCM 800 head directly into the same 4X12 Marshall Cab? I am willing to accept that it might not be 100% exact, but from your experiences does this method sound as raw, dynamic, alive and "in the room" as playing the real head + cab?

Would appreciate your inputs and tips!

Thanks!
Short answer: yes.
Long answer: as the KPA's cab simulation can't be turned off 100%, some problems might occur, but with the profile of the same cab that you're using, I don't think it would really matter.

3

Friday, May 18th 2012, 1:19pm

RE: RE: DI Profile + Power Amp + Cab: Does it feel like the real deal?

Hi All, I am almost certainly going to be a Kemper owner in the next few weeks :) . However was wondering how the kemper + power amp feels works as a replacement for a tube head?

For example, if I DI profile a JCM 800 head and use the Kemper + a Solid State Power amp into a 4X12 Marshall Cab, will it sound the same as the JCM 800 head directly into the same 4X12 Marshall Cab? I am willing to accept that it might not be 100% exact, but from your experiences does this method sound as raw, dynamic, alive and "in the room" as playing the real head + cab?

Would appreciate your inputs and tips!

Thanks!
Short answer: yes.
Long answer: as the KPA's cab simulation can't be turned off 100%, some problems might occur, but with the profile of the same cab that you're using, I don't think it would really matter.
What if the amp has been DI Profiled with a DI box into the KPA and not through a miced cabinet? Therefore we would be getting only the pre+power section of the amp profiled and wouldnt need to remove the cab simulation on the Kemper profile in this case as we have added no cab during profiling. Am I right?

4

Friday, May 18th 2012, 2:20pm

RE: RE: RE: DI Profile + Power Amp + Cab: Does it feel like the real deal?

Hi All, I am almost certainly going to be a Kemper owner in the next few weeks :) . However was wondering how the kemper + power amp feels works as a replacement for a tube head?

For example, if I DI profile a JCM 800 head and use the Kemper + a Solid State Power amp into a 4X12 Marshall Cab, will it sound the same as the JCM 800 head directly into the same 4X12 Marshall Cab? I am willing to accept that it might not be 100% exact, but from your experiences does this method sound as raw, dynamic, alive and "in the room" as playing the real head + cab?

Would appreciate your inputs and tips!

Thanks!
Short answer: yes.
Long answer: as the KPA's cab simulation can't be turned off 100%, some problems might occur, but with the profile of the same cab that you're using, I don't think it would really matter.
What if the amp has been DI Profiled with a DI box into the KPA and not through a miced cabinet? Therefore we would be getting only the pre+power section of the amp profiled and wouldnt need to remove the cab simulation on the Kemper profile in this case as we have added no cab during profiling. Am I right?
The KPA would still add a cab section, and turning it off wouldn't give you the results you want I think.

5

Saturday, May 19th 2012, 10:06am

^

Ok, I need some clarity on this ;(

So what you are saying is that the KPA is programmed to think that there is a cab included with every profile regardless of whether the profile has been physically captured from a miced cab or DI? Therefore if you switch off a cab from any profile, the KPA removes frequencies that it 'thinks' represents a cab. Is that correct?

However, what I am trying to achieve is very simple: Profile an JCM800 head DI (via DI/loadbox attached to the speaker outs) and then use that profile live by connecting the KPA to a Solidstate poweramp and a Marshall Cab. I want to use the DI profile as is, and want it captured in the KPA without any modification of any sort, since the amplification and cab simulation will come from a physical SS amp and a physical cab.

Any experiences of this would be much appreciated :)

Posts: 121

Location: Las Vegas, NV

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6

Saturday, May 19th 2012, 10:25am

RE: DI Profile + Power Amp + Cab: Does it feel like the real deal?

I am very unhappy with the results I've been getting, FWIW many others don't seem to be as picky as me.

I posted this: http://kemper-amps.com/forum/index.php?p…d&threadID=4680

Please note the difference in EQ curve between original signal and DI profiled. Sound clip provided as well. I observed a much more noticeable difference in "feel" and "punch" in the room with a poweramp plus cabinet (multiple versions of both tried).

CK seems to be addressing some of these issues in future updates by what I read. But as it stands today, I find it unusable. YMMV.

This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "chameleon101663" (May 19th 2012, 9:03pm)


7

Saturday, May 19th 2012, 11:17am

RE: RE: DI Profile + Power Amp + Cab: Does it feel like the real deal?

I am very unhappy with the results I've been getting, FWIW many others don't seem to be as picky as me.

I posted this: link

Please note the difference in EQ curve between original signal and DI profiled. Sound clip provided as well. I observed a much more noticeable difference in "feel" and "punch" in the room with a poweramp plus cabinet (multiple versions of both tried).

CK seems to be addressing some of these issues in future updates by what I read. But as it stands today, I find it unusable. YMMV.
Thanks, but cant get the link working.

basically you feel that the KPA doesnt capture DI profiles as effectively as a full rigs at the moment.

8

Saturday, May 19th 2012, 4:51pm

^

Ok, I need some clarity on this ;(

So what you are saying is that the KPA is programmed to think that there is a cab included with every profile regardless of whether the profile has been physically captured from a miced cab or DI? Therefore if you switch off a cab from any profile, the KPA removes frequencies that it 'thinks' represents a cab. Is that correct?

However, what I am trying to achieve is very simple: Profile an JCM800 head DI (via DI/loadbox attached to the speaker outs) and then use that profile live by connecting the KPA to a Solidstate poweramp and a Marshall Cab. I want to use the DI profile as is, and want it captured in the KPA without any modification of any sort, since the amplification and cab simulation will come from a physical SS amp and a physical cab.

Any experiences of this would be much appreciated :)
Your assumptions are correct, the KPA always thinks that there is a cab involved, therefore turning the cab section off after DI profiling will yield bad results.
It's been officially announced by Mr. Kemper that they will address this issue in the future, but it is unsolved currently.

viabcroce

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Location: Roma, Italy

Occupation: Personal Trainer for Musicians \ Performance Engineer

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9

Saturday, May 19th 2012, 5:27pm

Hi xtcblue,
welcome here :)

Your assumptions are right: KPA is not designed to profile parts of a sound chain in a linear way at the moment.

This doesn't mean you can't do what you asked or you won't like the result, but it will sound different. IOW,

profiled (head alone) + real poweramp + real cab ≠ profiled (whole rig) + FRFR

the second part of the disequation being the optimal implementation


This happens for two reasons mainly:

  1. Currently, he KPA expects to find a cab through the signal path (and tries to elaborate the interaction
    between the poweramp and the cab anyway). This is indeed one of the
    strongest points in the machine, the complex and dynamic interaction
    between poweramp and cab being one of the most meaningful aspects of a
    rig reproduction (there were most simulations fail).

  2. When using a real poweramp with a real cab you're creating a new electric interaction which was not present before (and we know this is - sonically speaking - perhaps the most important part). It would be wrong to assume that a "transparent" poweramp creates a "void" interaction with the real cab. Again, this doesn't mean it will sound bad: but it will not sound the same for sure.

HTH

gianfranco di mare

Musicians Support Association

10

Saturday, May 19th 2012, 5:57pm

I'd like to add that intentionally, the KPA was designed and meant for studio and live FRFR use.

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