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elfredo

Intermediate

Posts: 159

Location: Aachen

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41

Wednesday, February 15th 2012, 4:33pm

Quoted from "Guitartone"

And here we have guitarists discussing latencies of between 2ms and 5ms.


playing in latency with other musicians and playing in latency with your own instrument are separate topics. the right comparison would be: give a player genetically enhanced superlong arms and let him play his instrument several feet away from his ears... funny image but that's a comparable case. violinists are perhaps 3 feet away from their neighbor, but their instrument is super responsive since it is a) half a feet away from the player's ears and b) in direct contact to his body.

playing guitar means: direct contact with your body (although not as direct als violins) and hearing the (much louder) sound several milliseconds after the body feels it. this is quite a mess...sensualwise.

elfredo

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42

Wednesday, February 15th 2012, 4:34pm

Quoted from "JJ"

But the Kemper not only sounds great but she feels the best out of the many I've had


interesting ;)

guitarnet70

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43

Wednesday, February 15th 2012, 5:31pm

Quoted from "elfredo"

Quoted from "JJ"

But the Kemper not only sounds great but she feels the best out of the many I've had


interesting ;)
Somebody is really loving his Kemper :love: ..... :D :D :D :D
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff

sheguitarplayer

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Location: Berwick upon Tweed, UK

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44

Wednesday, February 15th 2012, 5:38pm

One of the things that always gets me about the axefx is the feel. Yes it IS very nice to play and it reacts very well to guitar volume changes, pick attack etc. Much better in fact than many (often high end) tube amps.
I think a lot of it comes down to personal preference. You might prefer the feel of the axefx to anything else, much like I might prefer the feel of a Marshall amp and you refer the feel of a Bogner say.
But the KPA is there to replicate those real tube amps.
When you do some profiles of your own you suddenly realise which one (axe or Kemper) sounds and feels real, and its the Kemper by quite a long way. The compare function really wakes you up to how close the amp and the Kemper are in all respects.
Im a big Marshall fan and have owned many of them over the years.
I spent years trying to get the axefx to sound and react the way the real deal does. Tried many others patches in the process. Got nowhere near in reality although I did get some really nice sounds.
Profiled the amps with the Kemper and the sound/feel was right there.
Like I said before, the axefx can and does feel very nice to play, but does it feel real? Sorry but in my experience no it doesn't. It was the best of the bunch but not any more. Its just a bit too refined, well behaved and clinical when compared to the real deal.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "sheguitarplayer" (Feb 15th 2012, 5:58pm)

schneidas

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45

Wednesday, February 15th 2012, 5:46pm

I was hoping for you to share your experience on this, sheguitarplayer. Thanks
"Quote me... I dare ya!"

USA Custom Guitars Strats -> KPA -> Alesis M1 Active MKII
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sheguitarplayer

Intermediate

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Location: Berwick upon Tweed, UK

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46

Wednesday, February 15th 2012, 6:09pm

Quoted from "elfredo"

Quoted from "Guitartone"

And here we have guitarists discussing latencies of between 2ms and 5ms.


playing in latency with other musicians and playing in latency with your own instrument are separate topics. the right comparison would be: give a player genetically enhanced superlong arms and let him play his instrument several feet away from his ears... funny image but that's a comparable case. violinists are perhaps 3 feet away from their neighbor, but their instrument is super responsive since it is a) half a feet away from the player's ears and b) in direct contact to his body.

playing guitar means: direct contact with your body (although not as direct als violins) and hearing the (much louder) sound several milliseconds after the body feels it. this is quite a mess...sensualwise.

I agree, but as a live player, I am rarely closer to my amp than, say 6 feet away, and more often about ten to fifteen feet way. How many ms is that?
When rehearsing and performing I move around quite a lot, and am often closer to the drum kit, vocal monitors or bass amp than I am to the guitar amp. Not trying to be clever, but I reckon we are in the same boat as the 'orchestra' example in many ways and 2-5ms (whichever it might actually be, I certainly don't notice it) is very small in that context.

Per

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47

Wednesday, February 15th 2012, 6:27pm

It's hard to know where the KPA fits in, studio or on the road, in some ways it seems it's more geared to on the road. The other possible thing is while you profile there's also going to be that added roundtrip latency going to/from the guitar/kpa/amp/kpa. So if it adds the delay caused by latency to the profile then it's adding the latency of it's own roundtrip in there on top of anything the amp itself has. And of course if you then go through a convertor/mixer that oculd add a bit more during profiling, and if the mic is placed further back... and all this is making the huge assumption that the KPA even takes this into account and adds a delay on purpose to match the feel, (which I kinda doubt).

As I said though, what I feel about playing the KPA and it's profiles and their responsiveness may or may not have anything to do with latency. In my situation I'm using it with studio monitors at between near to mid field distances (i.e. from sitting at a desk that they're mounted to, to standing up a few feet away), I'd have thought that even at 5ms the latency wasn't that much of a factor, though I know I really start to feel latency at 10ms in this setup (feels like slapback echo to me at that point), instead I'm assuming the play-feel i get is more related to the amp sim itself and it's characteristics.

Armin

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48

Wednesday, February 15th 2012, 6:28pm

KPA feels great compared to the AxeFx II IMHO.

But the noise gate takes away something.

Without the NG it works great with the NG ok - there is room for improvement.

I did not measure it but feel a larger latency while in profile more.
www.soundside.de

sheguitarplayer

Intermediate

Posts: 436

Location: Berwick upon Tweed, UK

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49

Wednesday, February 15th 2012, 8:10pm

Quoted from "Armin"

KPA feels great compared to the AxeFx II IMHO.

.


Ha ha, yeah, cos it feels like the amp you've just profiled.
I know Im labouring this point, sorry guys, but honestly, if you haven't already, just try it. Its a revelation!

gbs

Unregistered

50

Wednesday, February 15th 2012, 8:36pm

Quoted from "sheguitarplayer"

One of the things that always gets me about the axefx is the feel. Yes it IS very nice to play and it reacts very well to guitar volume changes, pick attack etc. Much better in fact than many (often high end) tube amps.
I think a lot of it comes down to personal preference. You might prefer the feel of the axefx to anything else, much like I might prefer the feel of a Marshall amp and you refer the feel of a Bogner say.
But the KPA is there to replicate those real tube amps.
When you do some profiles of your own you suddenly realise which one (axe or Kemper) sounds and feels real, and its the Kemper by quite a long way. The compare function really wakes you up to how close the amp and the Kemper are in all respects.
Im a big Marshall fan and have owned many of them over the years.
I spent years trying to get the axefx to sound and react the way the real deal does. Tried many others patches in the process. Got nowhere near in reality although I did get some really nice sounds.
Profiled the amps with the Kemper and the sound/feel was right there.
Like I said before, the axefx can and does feel very nice to play, but does it feel real? Sorry but in my experience no it doesn't. It was the best of the bunch but not any more. Its just a bit too refined, well behaved and clinical when compared to the real deal.


+1

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