Kemper Amps Forum

Quoted from "audioholic"

have you tried adjusting the pick attack parameter?

Yes, I find it emphasizes the sound of pick attack but doesn't help with feel.[/quote]


Exactly...The same experience here..

Quoted from "Radley"

Just for clarification: I am saying that using this technique (profiling my other modelers & preamps) makes the attacks feel more natural to my touch, making the KPA more enjoyable for yours truly to use. As with other equipment, I do whatever it takes to get the feel that helps me to play & 'emote' most effectively - I try everything I can think of before I write any unit off. I prefer the sounds I hear on well-produced records, not so much the typical sound that comes from a standard miked amp.

Why even keep the Kemper just to profile a modeler you already have that you like the feel of better? Just use the other modeler. It's like buying a Canon to photograph the prints out of your Nikon because you like the feel of Nikon better.

Quoted from "Radley"

Are you trying to talk me into getting rid of it???

Definitely NOT!

I love the idea of you continuously owning experimenting with the KPA.
It means I can look forward to some great Profiles like the 'Lancer', and some great rigs that you might share.

Admit it, the KPA is addictive, it's very difficult to get rid of once you've spent some time with it.

Quoted from "Radley"

Quoted from "MaxTwang"

Quoted from "audioholic"

have you tried adjusting the pick attack parameter?

Yes, I find it emphasizes the sound of pick attack but doesn't help with feel.

Exactly. It is the DNA of the Kemper digital distortion algorithm that is not right (or at least not analog enough) imho.

While I completely respect your opinion, I just don't hear any inherent sound to the KPA. It just sounds like what I feed it. It could maybe get closer to what I feed it (in terms of bass response) if I want to be picky about it (but I like the lack of mud) but in no cases do I hear a "signature" sound from profile to profile. And as far as analog enough goes, the last thing I would use to describe the sound of the KPA is "digital". I have consistently fooled not only myself, but in all blind shootouts I have posted the results were a coin toss. Maybe CK can chime in to articulate whether in fact there is any algo that affects all profiles and if so, to what degree it contributes.

This thread over here got me thinking : http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1044372

I have to agree with him, after going through every profile on the Kemper including user downloads none of them quite have that same bite when you dig in, there's a sort of slightly too smooth/slightly too even result from the Kemper every time. Digging in even with single coils I just can't get near that same tone. Now I think the KPA is better than I've heard form other modellers, but for sure there are areas for improvement, because I can definitely get a lot closer to the desirable characteristics (though obviously not the EQ shape overall tone and the mesa has a different distortion shape to a Marshall) with my real amp.

OK so you're saying "In that case profile your god damn amp fool", so that's exactly what I did.

Here's an AB (first is Kemper second is Amp) : http://www.peranders.com/general/mesa525classa_not_right.mp3

And here's the profile in case anyone wants to explore it : http://www.peranders.com/general/MESA525classA.zip

The results were disappointing. With this soft of dynamic spongy tone it just can't seem to nail it. It got the overall signature, but listening to the results side by side afterwards there's not so much a missing low end as a missing low end response, i.e. at the right points of digging in and playing chords there's this lovely blooming lows and mids tone on the original amp (mic up against the grill off center), that just isn't there n the profile where it's just flat "on" all the time, if there's bass it's there all the time, same with the mids. Then the trebles were harsh. And it doesn't matter how long I refine for or what I do while refining, it never gets there. This was after about half an hour or refining with every approach I can think of and then doing a little ab test like above in a DAW to hear the result inbetween each refining session (usually refining from between 20 seconds to a couple of minutes), with each refining session trying a different approach.

Now with distortion in the other channel I can get a good result, it's a smoother flatter distortion and the Kemper pretty much nails it. In this channel though where the classic crunch tones are the Kemper just doesn't seem to be able to go there. The settings for those interested are :


(Reverb is actually off though you can't tell easily from the image as it's controlled by the pedal).

So this isn't a case of a failing in power amp modeling (that others have noted), as you can see the power section is way down low (the THD hotplate was set to -4dB but the output was still plenty loud enough and the mic was right up against the grill so room noise should be pretty minimal in this case).

I really hope this can be improved because that's exactly where most of the classic guitar tones exist. This spongy crunchy tone area, often associated with power amp distortion (not in this instance though). It's about the way it sounds on string attack (pick attack doesn't change things it just compresses the transient which actually makes it more even sounding), the response curve at different volumes, when the bass kicks in versus the treble and so on. Nothing I could do tweaking the amp parameters, or adding different kinds of fx and reverbs or changing the cabs could help this. Maybe someone else can get closer or has an answer, or perhaps Christoph might know what's going on. I'd really love to be able to get those sorts of tones and feels with the Kemper, as at this point I have to agree with Radley and those others who are also missing this (and I hope my post helps illustrate the problem in a useful and constructive/clear way that's useful for Kemper and other users).

Quoted from "Per"

OK so you're saying "In that case profile your god damn amp fool", so that's exactly what I did.

Here's an AB (first is Kemper second is Amp) : http://www.peranders.com/general/mesa525classa_not_right.mp3

And here's the profile in case anyone wants to explore it : http://www.peranders.com/general/MESA525classA.zip

The results were disappointing.

I didn't read your post correctly, as I listened I thought you had said the first part was the amp and second the Kemper.
So of course my guitarist brain re-programmed to find fault in the second part because you said that's the "disappointing" part...that's what happened, I forced myself to admit the second part had less dynamics, was slightly 'muffled' and lacked some clarity...then I re read your post.

I checked the Profile out.
The Definition is on 10, maxed out.
I turned it down to about 3.5 or 4.
Then I added a Compressor stomp upfront which chills out the high end a little.

The Clean Sense is also on 10, you must be using single coils.

Overall, I really dig your Profile, I've made a bunch of rigs with it and they sound great.

Quoted from "Guitartone"

Quoted from "Per"

I checked the Profile out.
The Definition is on 10, maxed out.
I turned it down to about 3.5 or 4.
Then I added a Compressor stomp upfront which chills out the high end a little.

The Clean Sense is also on 10, you must be using single coils.

Overall, I really dig your Profile, I've made a bunch of rigs with it and they sound great.

i didn't mess with the profile yet, but i'll share this for a last time:

experiment with the input settings, especially the clean sense! it does make a big difference! (for me lower is better, also with singlecoils) definition on 10 is also something that wouldn't have come to my mind for the sound you're after... but i know it's tempting to max it out for getting more "felt" amp-response, but i already cluttered this place with my thoughts about that... ;-)

Quoted from "Radley"

Christoph - I am profiling much of my equipment (I have boat-loads!) with the KPA to find what gets the best results for my ear and touch. I have now profiled 6 of my own tube amps, and numerous modelers, preamps, and distortion pedals - this is all to get a feel for what the Kemper does best (for my particular sonic needs). The advantage of profiling my touring modelers is the obvious time I have put into the presets (pre-EQ, post-EQ distortion timbre, de-fizzing, etc) - this leaves the KPA EQ and Amp/Cab parameters available for additional tweaking - it's the overdriven touch and finesse that I can't duplicate yet...

Radley, you seem to have no interest in answering my questions.
This leaves room for assumptions: You are more interested in pointing out diffuse problems rather that finding solutions.
You have gotten used to modeling amps and augmented amp sounds.
You compare the sound of the KPA with synthesized ampifier simulations.

I am sorry, but we only deliver authentic profiles of real amps, not synthesized amps.
If you like modelers better than the sound of real amps, you should go for it.
Modelers can be like fruit candies with artificial flavour. If you taste a real apple afterwards, you might be dissapointed.

If I got you wrong, please provide precise information, as others do.
Please post an A/B comparison, as others do.