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Tried re-amping direct recorded guitar signal...bleccccch!!!

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chameleon101663

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Tuesday, March 27th 2012, 8:59am

Tried re-amping direct recorded guitar signal...bleccccch!!!

I recorded 5 tracks using various amplifiers (with the same direct recorded guitar track). The results were terrible. All kinds of yucky tones and weird phase issues. :huh:

But, if I physically played the parts five times, using the same amps as the previous tracks, the results were much better. :thumbup:

And if I re-amp a direct recorded guitar signal using on-board guitar amp plugins (Guitar Rig, Amplitube, LePou) the results are fine. :thumbsup:

I guess this might be obvious to some; I'm kind of a newb at this...but it still was a surprise. :wacko:

Anyone else have better results re-amping? 8|

Am I doing something obviously wrong? ?(

guitarnet70

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Tuesday, March 27th 2012, 9:20am

Quoted from "chameleon101663"

Am I doing something obviously wrong? ?(
Looks like....the question is: what? ?(

I assume you're recording the dry track from the direct out and use spdif for re-amping. Have you muted the wet track by re-amping? Check that you're not double monitoring from the DAW. Check as well the spdif in levels....

Could you describe every step of your signal chain?
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff

tylerhb

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Tuesday, March 27th 2012, 9:41am

Reamping very much depends on the signal quality of the DI signal from and to your audio interface. If you have the feeling that your reamped tones are not as good as if you were directly recording the output of the KPA while playing you should consider a different setup. A connection using SPDIF in/out is highly advisable because the signal quality will be constant throughout the whole process with no further D/A or A/D conversions.

Jimmyno

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Tuesday, March 27th 2012, 11:42am

Quoted from "tylerhb"

Reamping very much depends on the signal quality of the DI signal from and to your audio interface. If you have the feeling that your reamped tones are not as good as if you were directly recording the output of the KPA while playing you should consider a different setup. A connection using SPDIF in/out is highly advisable because the signal quality will be constant throughout the whole process with no further D/A or A/D conversions.


+1
If you are not using the spdif in/out i hope you are using a reamp box (like Palmer, Radial or LittleLabs ones) to send the direct recordered signal into the KPA.
I you aren't, you should. If you are using it but still weird results, probably there's something wrong with the levels.

audioholic

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Tuesday, March 27th 2012, 2:49pm

Sounds like something's wrong with the way you ate refeeding signal back into Kemper. Keep in mind that coming out of your daw will most likely be line level This is why there is re amping boxes that help with the proper impedance and level both ways.

chameleon101663

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Tuesday, March 27th 2012, 7:20pm

The signal chain is...

1st recording (direct track):
Guitar > KPA direct out > Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 > Logic

Then, for re-amping:
Logic > Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 > KPA main outs > Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 > Logic (different track)

I should note that the tracks sound fine individually; it's when you combine them that it starts sounding crappy (phase?).

Also, I've re-amped this way with real amps and not had issues.

When I have a little more time, I'll upload clips.

Hope that helps.

ChrisBeaver

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Tuesday, March 27th 2012, 8:19pm

If your re amping the exact same take from the same performance then layering it several times with different amp tones but all from the same take it will have phase issues its normal as its the same initial performance. There's things you can do to correct it like inverting phase hard panning or slipping the time by 1-2 ms on certain tracks. but the bigger question is why are you using the same performance to re amp lots of amp sounds together? this will always sound better with different takes layered and also avoid any possible phase issues

guitarnet70

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Tuesday, March 27th 2012, 8:26pm

It's normal that you're having phasing issues due to the added latency from extra A/D D/A conversions. SPDIF will reduce the problem, but as Chris said you need to move the tracks in order to eliminate it
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff

chameleon101663

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Tuesday, March 27th 2012, 9:43pm

Quoted from "ChrisBeaver"

If your re amping the exact same take from the same performance then layering it several times with different amp tones but all from the same take it will have phase issues its normal as its the same initial performance. There's things you can do to correct it like inverting phase hard panning or slipping the time by 1-2 ms on certain tracks. but the bigger question is why are you using the same performance to re amp lots of amp sounds together? this will always sound better with different takes layered and also avoid any possible phase issues


Quoted from "guitarnet70"

It's normal that you're having phasing issues due to the added latency from extra A/D D/A conversions. SPDIF will reduce the problem, but as Chris said you need to move the tracks in order to eliminate it


That's what I needed guys. I wasn't sure if this was normal or not. If the accepted standard is to always do multi-takes, then that's the way I need to go.

I'm trying to re-create the "wall of sound" I hear on professional recordings. Green Day "American Idiot" comes to mind. The guitars are HUGE. It doesn't sound like multiple takes either...maybe it's just hella tight. ;)

Like I mentioned, the issue wasn't as noticeable when using multiple internal plugins or using a splitter to two real amps so I wasn't sure.

That being said...how many layers/performances would be common to achieve a sound like that? 2? 4? 6? More?

Thanks! :D

jeff5x0

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Tuesday, March 27th 2012, 10:21pm

Most of the time you can get by with 2 individual takes. I like to use 2 different amps as well. (not the same sound on each side) I have gone up to 4 different takes before, but usually any more than that and it starts getting sloppy. YMMV

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