On the fence between Kemper Profiling Amp and Axe FX II

    Personally I don't know how starting from a Kemper "snapshot" is different, or in any form superior than starting from pre-baked amp model. If anything, Kemper "snapshot" will give a much easier and faster start. We can also have virtually "infinite" number of snapshots and create our own ones. So, I'd think that Kemper may have slightly bigger chance to provide "exact view" (whatever that is).


    BTW: I don't have time for fooling around with parameters (I prefer to spend my time playing guitar), but if I ever feel like it, I'll take a Fender Twin profile and tweak it so it sounds like a Mesa Rectifier amp. I am really confident I can do it.

    Quote from mdeeRocks

    Personally I don't know how starting from a Kemper "snapshot" is different, or in any form superior than starting from pre-baked amp model. If anything, Kemper "snapshot" will give a much easier and faster start. We can also have virtually "infinite" number of snapshots and create our own ones. So, I'd think that Kemper may have slightly bigger chance to provide "exact view" (whatever that is).


    BTW: I don't have time for fooling around with parameters (I prefer to spend my time playing guitar), but if I ever feel like it, I'll take a Fender Twin profile and tweak it so it sounds like a Mesa Rectifier amp. I am really confident I can do it.



    I don't think we really need to worry about what the Axe-FX users are saying, Mr CK. There's just so much more to a great product than attacking the competition.


    And by your congenial and approachable demeanour (in the German "I'm so serious" way, hahaha *clap clap* :thumbup: ), I think you know this too! :thumbup:


    I had brought this up in another thread, on the tweakability of the profiled sounds on the Kemper. Judging by mdeeRocks response here, the simple explanation for the reason why users don't really get caught up in the deep editing parameters is they don't need to, not because it can't be done.

    Speaking of class, nice post. :thumbup: Probably one of the kids who posted my family's personal information, including address, wife's name etc. on 4chan from HCAF a few years ago, Glad to see you kids are still keepin' it classy. He posted this at Fractal too but they removed it.


    I will admit when they did that things got heated but that was HCAF wasn't it. I took quite a beating there for suggesting that the new Kemper was going to be a hot ticket as well. They even linked my other forum posts so they could continue their escapades for while after I left the forum. So it goes.


    Never mind that every post I have EVER made regarding the Kemper at TGP , Rig talk, Fractal, or here has been extremely positive. The only people I have ever had problems with are those who post BS memes like "The Kemper has bad effects" or the "The Fractal unit is a toy" or one unit "wipes the floor" with the other. I have taken both sides to task when the BS flys. I commented on two such posts here but did not attack the poster, rather the content of the post.


    Every post I have made here in this thread is very positive regarding the Kemper and I was most respectful to Mr Kemper and answered his questions politely. I think the guy is a genius.


    Preferring something over something else is normal. Opinions either way are just that, opinions. Trash talking stuff is juvenile and yes that includes companies trash talking other companies or the post I quoted. That kind of stuff just isn't necessary to make a cogent point.


    The two products this thread is based upon are at the top of the heap and both do what they do very well. I absolutely love them both. There is no reason to downplay one to make the other seem better just because you own one or the other.


    If the purpose of this thread was to type "Fractal totally sucks and the Kemper unit rules" then I apologize for putting them on equal ground. I thought it was an open forum but I may have been mistaken. I shall keep my opinions on these matters to TGP or Rig Talk from now on. Carry on. :)

    Edited 14 times, last by zentman ().

    Quote from zentman

    Sure they do. You just don't hang out there enough.


    Where? Link?


    I just quoted this on the FAF "...but no chimey, bell-like Fender clean ". It's an AXE FX II review, it has been deleted a few minutes later. wow :wacko:


    Believe me when people will know that they can get the same sound with an Axe Ultra or Standard than with the II, there will be a serious issue. :whistling:

    Lol I have no idea what 4chan is , but if people are doing that maybe you should think about how you are perceived and step away from the Internet for awhile.


    And if you want to talk class I'd be happy PM you the names you have called a few people and maybe you might rethink a little pointing the finger


    I'm not sure what post you are talking about and I don't really care.

    Quote from caveman1

    Lol I have no idea what 4chan is , but if people are doing that maybe you should think about how you are perceived and step away from the Internet for awhile.


    And if you want to talk class I'd be happy PM you the names you have called a few people and maybe you might rethink a little pointing the finger


    I'm not sure what post you are talking about and I don't really care.

    Just to be clear, I actually know who you are and your 3 other alts on various forums ( I only have one, Zentman as I have nothing to hide). I think it was about 2-3 years ago when we had a heated discussion at HCAF. You still carrying that hurt? Sorry man. I really didn't think it would scar you for life. Pretty sure you know what 4chan is and since "Google is your friend", you at least Googled it.;)


    That being said, this is another forum at another time. Those days are gone, try to move on. The topic here in this thread is "


    On the fence between Kemper Profiling Amp and Axe FX II


    as per the OP not "Zentman hurt my feelings when he called me a name three years ago so I am gonna follow him from forum to forum and trash talk him personally".


    Please try to stay on topic. I actually reported the off topic BS to the mods but since it seems to be ok with them, I took a moment to address your libel.

    Edited 2 times, last by zentman ().

    Quote from nightlight

    I don't think we really need to worry about what the Axe-FX users are saying, Mr CK. There's just so much more to a great product than attacking the competition.


    And by your congenial and approachable demeanour (in the German "I'm so serious" way, hahaha *clap clap* :thumbup: ), I think you know this too! :thumbup:


    I had brought this up in another thread, on the tweakability of the profiled sounds on the Kemper. Judging by mdeeRocks response here, the simple explanation for the reason why users don't really get caught up in the deep editing parameters is they don't need to, not because it can't be done.

    Of course Kemper is very tweakable. Lots of less vocal (on the internet) people just prefer to play their guitars instead of messing around with numbers, Kemper enables this. Having good base (profile) is the key and (IMO) most factory loaded profiles are very good. This is the one thing (and how it feels) which (for me) makes Kemper amp much better solution than anything else digital.


    IMO, Kemper amp is a revolutionary product, it's the same for guitar as invention of sampling for keyboard players. It's reasonably (for what it is) priced, available in music shops and has good support. No brainer for me IMO.


    Hey Zentman,


    I don't know what the other poster's problems are with you (and I don't care to know) but I appreciate the feedback that you gave me.


    As a person on the fence, I don't think you misrepresented anything and I think you gave a fair assessment of both products.


    Really both products are great and if I had unlimited funds I would own both plus a fine assortment of tube amps, effects pedals, guitars, and recording equipment. Unfortunately that is not the case and since I don't make my living performing or writing music, it really isn't all that important. I am just looking to have fun.

    Allow me to make my final recommendation based on your post.......are ya ready folks? Get the Kemper. You will have plenty of effects, it sounds stellar, new stuff still coming, boatloads of fun amps to keep trying all the time, and it's cheaper to purchase, especially in Europe. Plus....and it's a biggy, it actually looks pretty damn cool. :)

    Edited once, last by zentman ().

    Quote from zentman

    Allow me to make my final recommendation based on your post.......are ya ready folks? Get the Kemper. You will have plenty of effects, it sounds stellar, new stuff still coming, boatloads of fun amps to keep trying all the time, and it's cheaper to purchase, especially in Europe. Plus....and it's a biggy, it actually looks pretty damn cool. :)


    Too late, bro, TGP 1 - Kemper Forum 0.


    :)

    Zentman, it's good with some self distance awareness.
    You know that you're far from an "ordinary guy poster" on gear forums and you are very aware that you are considered to be the infamous no 1 fractal axe fx crusader on several gear forums for a long time.


    Many of your flamebaiting fanboi posts are removed from TGP and even on the fractal forum have you been asked to calm down many times. You've explained that you can't help yourself and that you actually enjoy taking on the role as a fractal police that prowls forums and jumps in as soon as someone writes something they don't like about fractal.
    Have you ever taken a step back with some self distance and reflected about this odd behaviour?


    Here are your own words explaining some reasons for your obsessive protective fractal fanboi behaviour:
    zentman quote:
    "I know I am nut for doing this but I enjoy it."
    "Why does it bother me? I like Fractal and I like Cliff. I want to see the company thrive.
    I want a constant and steady cash flow coming in to Fractal so they have money to develop more stuff.
    I do not want to see mis-information being spread that may hinder sales."

    Play some more guitar, relax and don't be so overprotective about what others think about fractal or the axe fx.
    I mean that in a good way.

    Edited once, last by orko ().

    Thank you for taking the time to research my posting history (Nothing obsessive about that). I stand by every post you quoted. Being an American I want to see USA business succeed, God knows we need it here. Being a Fractal owner, I want to see the company thrive.They go out of business and my product support dies. I also own a Ford and wish them much success as well. ;)


    What others think about the Fractal product is fine. Spreading misinformation is not. It doesn't give the reader a fair overview of the product. I am no fan of misinformation being spread about the Kemper company either. I wanted Kemper to succeed years ago with this product and stated so. Go find those now. (hint, they won't be on the Fractal forum). You see Mr Orko and whatever other nicks you use elsewhere, I am always Zentman so it's pretty easy to do. I don't change my nicks between forums because I am not ashamed of my posting history (not most of it anyway) unlike others who do.


    Kemper gave the industry a kick in the pants and revolutionized digital amp simulation. Love it! I just recommended it to the OP. I recommended it to the leader of the group I played in and he got one.


    Debunking illogical debate is just a pastime. If you heard my clips, then you are probably aware I play quite a lot. :) Feel free to research my posting history at TGP, Fractal, or Rig talk.. I'm afraid you really stretched the truth to make your point. Every forum has an ignore button, feel free to use it on me.


    I tried to get the thread back on topic but there are my personal detractors who will not let that happen. It's not about me. It's about a fair comparison between two products that the OP was curious about.

    Edited 8 times, last by zentman ().

    Hey there, just thought I'd clarify what I meant by this post. (yes I'm someone from the FAS forum, don't crucify me just yet :P )


    By snapshot I meant that it was a profile of an amp at a particular setting, with a specific cab/mic and signal chain, rather than a model which can be adjusted. (Cabs switched in and out, amps that have 'knobs' that have a fairly similar taper to their counterpart in comparison to starting at noon on a profile). I didn't mean it in a negative way at all, and after a ton of 'sonic research' lately I've found myself digging the tones I've heard from the Kemper. I can even say, as an Axe user I'm guilty of not using my ears to judge other sounds, but I've gotten past that. I'm personally an axe user and have only tried a Kemper once (At NAMM, hardly the best place to get an impression of a unit as the Kemper, or even a Fractal unit) but that's just me :)


    As someone who doesn't know the Kemper as well as say a unit like the Axe, the question does arise to me at least, of how IRs are differentiated from a profile, as a mic is picking up a full signal chain, and how the taper of knobs on the kemper compare to the real unit. I remember when I tried the Kemper, I was able to crank an AC30 profile to near death metal type of distortion, and while that's cool thinking about the flexibility, it also makes you wonder how spot on something could be if there is a wide range.


    Anyhow, I hope I don't get flamed for posting here. I'm just as interested in any gear that i don't use, as the stuff I do use, so that way I can learn what works and what doesn't work for me.

    Quote from SeanAshe

    ... and how the taper of knobs on the kemper compare to the real unit. I remember when I tried the Kemper, I was able to crank an AC30 profile to near death metal type of distortion, and while that's cool thinking about the flexibility, it also makes you wonder how spot on something could be if there is a wide range.


    The initial 'snapshot' is already as accurate as it gets. After that, if you want manipulate what you have further, think of the drive, EQ parameters and the deeper editing parameters of the profiler like they they are highest quality generic controllers (like in a VERY expansive mixing desk) that work in the most musical way.
    You will be able to do with them what they are intended for: manipulate the signal to your liking. Think pragmatical. It works. In a wonderful way as you can do things now that you wouldn't be able to do with the original amp.

    Sean


    Let's take a regular Ibanez TS9 pedal and imagine it's an amp.
    The Drive/Gain knob has a particular 'Taper', so does the Tone knob.
    We know that hundreds of 'Boutique' pedal builders have copied and then improved on the original TS9 circuit.
    The 'Boutique' versions don't have the same taper on the gain knob, some make the gain go way beyond the gain on a stock TS9.
    So if you have an improved boutique version of a TS9, you know that the gain knob taper is different.
    You quickly learn that if you want it to sound like a regular TS9 then don't take the gain knob beyond lets say 10 o'clock, because beyond 10 o'clock is additional gain/distortion that the stock TS9 doesn't have...the additional gain is there for you to use or not to use, depending on what you want.
    If everyone wanted a stock un modded Ibanez TS9 then Keeley, Analogman, Fulltone and a hundred other boutique pedal builders would be out of business...we'd all rather have a version of a TS9 that does the regular TS9 'thing', but also goes way beyond.


    The point I'm trying to make (in a weird way). :)
    If you take a clean Vox AC30 Profile on the Kemper and then crank the gain, it's like cranking the gain on the boutique TS9 and expecting it to sound like a stock TS9.
    The Kemper Profiler is a 'Boutique' piece of gear, you have to learn how it's brain works and then use that to your advantage.
    Yes, Kemper developed their own tone stack, the Gain knob might not work exactly like the original amp being Profiled.
    So you have two choices, the 'Snapshot' choice, and the 'Boutique' choice...once you learn how the brain works you learn how to use both.
    Using your example of the Vox AC30...we all know that an AC30 has some glorious sounding sweet spots, adding additional gain beyond 10 would not be considered a sweet spot, which is basically what you did.


    Often guys share 15 Profiles of an amp, at different gain settings, let's call them snapshots.
    I did a test.
    I took a Profile with gain at 5, turned the Kemper gain knob down to 3 and it sounded like the Profile with gain at 3.
    Then I took the Profile with gain at 3, turned the Kemper gain knob up to 5, it sounded like the Profile with gain at 5.
    So, out of the 15 Profiles I only saved 3 because using the Kemper gain knob covered all 15.
    As for the Kemper tone controls, they work better than any amp I've played, I've never come across one Kemper owner who's complained about the tone knobs not doing the job.


    The Pods,11R, Axe-FX, etc, etc, 'apparently' model the gain and tone controls exactly like the amp.
    What guitarist/engineer has played/owned all the original amps modelled..I don't think one exists?
    So how does everyone know how accurate the modelling actually is...and only one version of the amp was modelled?
    So the modelling might be accurate to that one version of the amp, but we know that different versions of the same amp sound different.
    If the amp is perfectly modelled, then why all the extra tweaking options, why all the deep editing menus...you shouldn't need them if the amp is perfectly modelled?
    As soon as you delve into all those deep editing menus and change the settings you've lost the original amp, so what's the point...what you've done is turn your 11R/Pod/Axe-FX into a Kemper. :)
    Is the one JCM800 modelled in the Pod, 11R and Axe-FX more versatile than the 20 different JCM800s in the Kemper?


    Each guitarist uses his gear to get 'his' tones, one way or another you'll manipulate your gear to get your best possible tones.
    If you used a Kemper you'd get all the great tones you need, instead you use your Axe-FX and end up at the same place.
    The technical BS of how you get there is irrelevant, the fanboyism is irrelevant, we're all fanboys of the gear we like and own, it's psychology 101.


    Btw, your Axe-FX demos are awesome, great tones and great guitar playing...you're a rockstar!

    Quote from SeanAshe

    As someone who doesn't know the Kemper as well as say a unit like the Axe, the question does arise to me at least, of how IRs are differentiated from a profile, as a mic is picking up a full signal chain, and how the taper of knobs on the kemper compare to the real unit.

    From player point of view.


    I don't think cabs are IRs (you can convert IRs to cabs tho). Other than that, I don't really know, it's sort of sorcery (and probably patented), but it works well, it really does. You would have to try for yourself.


    Knobs don't work like on real amp counterpart. It's more like having a very good generic tone stack/EQ. Except gain, which, well just adds gain and have huge range. Is this good? Yes and no, for some amps it works great, for some (quite rare) it doesn't, mostly because that particular amp has (in real version) sophisticated tone stack which affects feel, drive etc. Now, if we would look at it in negative way, some may say that most tube amps have this "sophisticated" tone stack. But, as I said before, personally I don't think it's the case. I have a couple profiles of Marshalls and Fenders which are profiled at 30+ settings and I could (like poster above me) delete most of them because tone stack would get me there without problems.


    Tweakability is there if you want it and it can alter amp sound in very radical way (there is tube bias, clarity, pick attack, etc.. have a look in the manual). The difference between Kemper and Axe is that you start from pre-baked amp model (axe) or profiled amp sound (Kemper). My opinion is that it's easier and quicker to start from a profiled amp sound, because in many cases there will be no tweaks needed (I am saying this as a player, I am not a tweaker) and you can always load up different "amp model" - a profile. Having said that, many Axe presets are just right as well.


    I suppose all these debates what is better come from people who feel the need to justify their purchases and cork sniffers who can't play and just mess around with gear endlessly :). In reality, both units are great and top of the game.