Last week I just wanted to test the new tubeamp loudness controller BAD CAT – UNLEASH . And from the first notes on I was fascinated to hear my good old BENDER 2x6V6 amp so clear and swift at any volume. And the effects loop in the UNLEASH allows me to control the volume with my HILTON pedal. That's all I need!
My first gigs without the KEMPER!
- fretboardminer
- Closed
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So goodbye Kemper?
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more info about unleash? thanks
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In my experience, a 100w RMS Solid State amp is equivalent to a 20w tube amp. The solid state amp will clip or limit on peaks and change the tone/volume when pushed. Most of us are using 500w or more for stage use.
Perhaps this amp is de-rated to provide high peak output?
bd
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Here is some good food for thought info, Amp Power Myths, tube vs solid state:
http://www.guitarnuts.com/amps/myths.phpAlso this funny man again,
Are Tube Amps Louder Than Solid State By Scott Grove[YOUTUBE]
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Just read your link. I agree with him but he didn't address the the needs of modeler users in his various examples
The author rightly states that it takes 10 times the power to increase the volume noticeably with all other factors being equal. This is the exact reason a solid state amp needs to be oversized. You can't run an SS amp into saturation without creating square waves and ugly harmonics so you need extra headroom to avoid this.
For the SS amp to cleanly reproduce the KPA's output at the volume equivalent to a 50w tube amp, you can't use a 50w SS amp because any noticeable peak will clip the amp. A 500w amp will have the headroom to avoid this. This is based on the articles conclusion that a 10 times more powerful amp is only noticeably louder.
This is no big secret. I use a 500w SS amp and can drive it to clip at volumes equivalent to a cranked 50w tube stack. Others use powered PA cabs with 1000w ratings. Even the powered KPA uses a 600w amp. Speaker efficiency plays into this equation as well. FRFR speakers are less efficient, guitar speakers are more efficient.
Perhaps the 100w Class D amp you are using is really rated at 500w peak to allow additional headroom to avoid clipping?
Sorry if this is overly technical. I'm an electrical engineer so my explanation might be nerdy but does agree with your reference link when applied to FRFR operation.
bd
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Here is some good food for thought info, Amp Power Myths, tube vs solid state:
http://www.guitarnuts.com/amps/myths.phpThanks Harry, lots of good info.
Sorry if this is overly technical. I'm an electrical engineer so my explanation might be nerdy but does agree with your reference link when applied to FRFR operation.
No problem. As long as you don't mind to encounter the same laymen's errors over and over again.
I for example measured the UNLEASH's output at 120 Watts into 8 Ohm (using Gerald Weber's simple method).For me the UNLEASH is just perfect because I like small amps and if I need more volume I can hook it up to a bigger support amp. But I wonder what would be if someone uses it with a 100 Watt MARSHALL full stack. I don't think he will be able to get the same maximum loudness (in case he needs it) than without the UNLEASH. I have no means here to test this. My understanding of this power thing is this:
- technically tubeamps are the same as loud as solid state amps.
- musically they are stronger because: 1) as Scott Grove mentioned they often are fitted with better speakers and 2) they still sound good in the clipping range. So we can turn them up louder before the clipping sounds ugly.
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- technically tubeamps are the same as loud as solid state amps.
- musically they are stronger because: 1) as Scott Grove mentioned they often are fitted with better speakers and 2) they still sound good in the clipping range. So we can turn them up louder before the clipping sounds ugly.
#1 is very true. I'm not sure "better" speakers are fitted to tube amps. More efficient guitar speakers with limited and focused frequency response are much louder than a speaker designed to produce a more full range flat response.
#2 is a big reason. It also depends on the % of distortion at rated output. A tube amp rated at a lower distortion has a huge headroom to turn up more. A SS amp, once it clips, is done...louder sounds really bad!
bd
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#2 is a big reason. It also depends on the % of distortion at rated output. A tube amp rated at a lower distortion has a huge headroom to turn up more. A SS amp, once it clips, is done...louder sounds really bad!
Yeah, and that's where they part....when they enter into distortion/compression territory. However, when using a ss amp with a modeler, you don't need to go into that territory as that part is already modeled. And thus you get to pack that extra loudness into a ss amp anyway. Theoretically the same loudness, but it surely doesn't hurt to have some extra to spare
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Ah... the eternal Tube vs. Solid State debate....
According to the late Mr. Alexander Dumble it all comes down to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVTj08qTwGw
Hilarious clip from a totally surreal ins(des)tructional video of Mr. Henry Kaiser: Dumbass extraordinaire!!!
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According to the late Mr. Alexander Dumble it all comes down to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVTj08qTwGw
I don't know about how electrons swim – but from my own experience in the last 30 years I know that the high frequencies are the problem zone. It is so hard to EQ a shimmering acoustic-guitar-like sparkle without going too icy and sterile. Meanwhile on a Champ (5F1) it is easy: just plug in.
The reason why I went KEMPER is that I wanted to have that sparkling sound of a Champ at it's sweet spot at any volume level and controllable with a pedal. I tried it now for a bit more than one year, did recording sessions and concerts of many different size from small arts-gallery 20 people gigs to large festivals with good PA. The problem zone was always the high end (and also the flexibility of the distortion). But I have to add that my music is very special, quite far away from the mainstream. Improvised Music, Freejazz and Echtzeitmusik. With minority music you encounter minority problems. I guess for most other commercial music styles the KPA is totally ok.
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But I have to add that my music is very special, quite far away from the mainstream. Improvised Music, Freejazz and Echtzeitmusik. With minority music you encounter minority problems. I guess for most other commercial music styles the KPA is totally ok.
Is there a chance to hear your music? It's always difficult to talk about music in very subjective categories like "commerial" or "non-commercial", "mainstream" or "underground". One example: I regularly do 100% improvised recordings-sessions with -if possible- exotic singers and instrumentalists (Rohan Dasgupta (awesome sitar-player from India), Xiao Lu (opera-singer from China), the great Freejazz-clarinetist Theo Jörgensmann ect.).
After the music is edited and mixed what's the category? For some people it's "lounge", for others "world-music", "nu-jazz", "ambient" ect. ect. Some may say it's commercial, for other listeners it's the most uncommercial music they've heard. To talk about music is hard, It's better to listen to it.
To listen to our songs just search for "Cinemascope - Oriental Traces" on iTunes.
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Nice that it suits for you.
I made the opposite experience btw... even our sound guy (who was a everything except Marshall sucks type) now prefers the KPA over any amp I use. -
A watt is a watt. It is a measurement of power, not volume. The amplifier industry is horribly inconsistent with how amps are rated. That said, the rating is supposed to be an indication of the amp (tube or solid state) operating without any clipping, in other words clean. For example, a 50 watt solid state versus tube amp should (if rated using the same methods and feeding the same speaker in the same cabinet) deliver the same decibel output while both are running clean. The misunderstanding of most guitarists is that maximum clean volume on the tube amp is probably with the volume at 4 or under and close to 8 on the ss amp. Now the tube amp will likely get much louder than the solid state amp with both amps set to 8 but now we're comparing apples and oranges as the tube amp is operating in excess of its wattage rating while the ss amp is designed not to exceed it.
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You cannot compare KPA vs. tube-amp, that doesn't make any sense:
The KPA is mainly built for playing it straight into the desk, if you have a good monitor situation, the KPA will sound awesome, if your monitor-situation is bad, the KPA will sound bad.
Much easier with a tube-amp, plug in your guitar and there's the sound, but whereas the KPA already has a perfect signal for the mixing-desk and P.A., you have to mike the amp up and try to get a good signal for the P.A..
In my normal stage-situation (big venues, in ear) the KPA normally will sound much better than any tube-amp, miked up and standing somewhere...And the FOH-guy will love it, because there's no loud guitar-signal on stage crawling into all mikes.
If you play in a club or on smaller stages (probably like fretboardminer) and maybe the amp is not even miked up, you will get a good guitar-sound with a simple tube-amp very fast. If you want to have the same quality with the KPA you need very good FRFR-cabs.
