It miss the air


  • Really? I had the complete opposite experience and response. I found Scuffam to sound and feel horribly synthetic very early pod like, the worst part was the cab/IR's which to me always give that DI through an EQ sound, no air at all. It's probably the best of the software plugins, but I can't say I was impressed.

    Same here...!

  • Not the same here. S-Gear for the win. Already gigged with it :) Well, the KPA still sounds better, but S-Gear really does sound good, better then the Axe imho.

    MJT Strats / PRS Guitars / Many DIY Guitars -- Kemper Profiler Rack / Kemper Remote / InEar

  • Just to clarify: If you say "air" to a mastering engineer, you're talking about the very highest frequencies, 14kHz-20kHz or so. And yes, the KPA cab emu does have (or used to have, last time I measured it) some rolloff there.


    But if you mean "air" in the Line6 POD sense, that's a simple early reflections type of effect, along the lines of the KPA's "Space" control.


    -djh

  • By "air" I mean the sense of a sound as an object in space with "air" around it. As in a true sound source. Most modelers give you the sound from a flat surface that comes from a speaker. The mind is not tricked into hearing it as a true sound source. Instead you hear it as a sound coming from the speaker. No depth, no "aliveness", no air. The KPA profiling process captures a higher degree of verisimilitude than any other modeler IMO. That's not to say it's as good as the real amp, just better than all the rest in this category. Playing with the "air" parameter on the AxeFx for instance does little to give you this quality. The Axe gives you the sound, but lacks the sense of aliveness that the KPA does effortlessly. Which is why I suggest if there is anything out there that's better, I haven't heard it.


    Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk 2

  • Not the same here. S-Gear for the win. Already gigged with it :) Well, the KPA still sounds better, but S-Gear really does sound good, better then the Axe imho.


    Its funny, I recently went nuts and purchased Amplitube 3 , Guitar Rig 5 , TH2 . and I already owned S-Gear.


    All sound OK or good thru Headphones and Good thru Monitors (depending what day it is ) , but S Gear sounds Harsh thru my Headphones and Great thru my A7x ... Reaktor in Guitar Rig really can make it sound nice because of the Sophisticated Reverbs . I use as stand alone though, have not used as VST in DAWS yet.. I am a little stumped when it comes to that stuff :whistling:


    Of course, thru my Monitors, the KPA wins :thumbup:

  • Just to clarify: If you say "air" to a mastering engineer, you're talking about the very highest frequencies, 14kHz-20kHz or so. And yes, the KPA cab emu does have (or used to have, last time I measured it) some rolloff there.
    -djh


    You got it, that's what i mean.
    When they remove the noise of the profile, they remove the cycling noises (typically 50/60 hz) which can occur then they seem to remove the kind of "ambient"/"white" noise (gear noise + room noise).
    For the second part i don't know how they work but it seems that they kill this small part in the high end which still makes a difference with a microphone setup in quiet environnement.
    If this is a matter of "treshold" they should give us the possibility to set the threshold, perhaps it will solve this issue.
    This is all you miss to have exactly the sound of your microphone.
    When you save your profile it is lost.
    I already opened a thread here about this and made records with my twin to demonstrate the issue.
    The sound changes when you save the profile and you lost this top end part.
    It's not musical IMO specially for clean sounds.

  • Cliff measured it and claimed that the KPA's amp models max frequency is 13KHz.


    Not sure many of the old boys here can hear much above :D


    btw. look what typical guitar speakers can handle:
    EVM 12L

    (All trademarks are trademarks of their respective owners, which are in no way associated or affiliated with soundside.de)


    Great Profiles --> soundside.de

  • Cliff measured it and claimed that the KPA's amp models max frequency is 13KHz.


    Not sure many of the old boys here can hear much above :D


    btw. look what typical guitar speakers can handle:
    EVM 12L


    "claimed" is probably the keyword here. Personally I wouldn´t believe anything cliff (small reminder: the dude behind fractal... a company that doesn´t like kemper that much because kemper seems to kick their ass [at least in many peoples opinions]) says about the kemper without having someones unbiased research data on my screen.

  • The Profiler plays the full bandwidth up to 20 kHz.


    When guitar speakers are listed with 7 kHz or so, that is e.g. the -3 dB level.
    That does not mean that they don't get beyond that. Frequencies up to 16 kHz are significant.
    If you cut a guitar speaker at 12 kHz, you can tell a slight but important difference.

  • The Profiler plays the full bandwidth up to 20 kHz.


    When guitar speakers are listed with 7 kHz or so, that is e.g. the -3 dB level.
    That does not mean that they don't get beyond that. Frequencies up to 16 kHz are significant.
    If you cut a guitar speaker at 12 kHz, you can tell a slight but important difference.

    Although not scientifically proven the brain and /or the body perceives frequencies above the audible range. Analogue tape at 30 ips on a well calibrated and maintained machine goes well beyond 20 kHz.
    Having said that and being used to the the term air as a consequence of more than two decades of engineering (most spent mastering) I do not find the KPA lacking any air. Even more so I find it very good at reproducing the whole chain (microphone mic preamp processing speaker and amp). There are a few minor thing that I would like to see ... oops.. hear improving but those are minor issues. In other words well done to the KPA team.
    Just my two cents.
    ymmv

  • I mean, why discuss esotherical matters? If there is a audible difference between the profiling setup and the resulting profile that you can hear, you can also record it. This is the first step in being sure that your mind does not play tricks on you. Or quoting Major Dutch: "It it bleeds, we can kill it" ;)

  • The way to add air—as in, the highest frequencies—that you perceive to be lacking, is to simply plug the Studio Equalizer into the X slot, adjust the High Freq to at least 14k or even much higher, then add the desired amount of High Gain (maybe 1 or 2 db).
    I do this a lot on clean and low gain profiles—not to make up for a deficit in the profiles upper frequencies, but to add sparkle in the "air band". Mid to high gain profiles don't usually need this treatment as much because you end up with sizzle and can loose warmth... unless that is what your after.
    Since this extra air extension is in addition to other potential high freq boosting throughout the signal chain, a little goes a long way, and must be added judiciously.

  • Some of you guys have ears like German Shepard's! lol When recording, especially since you're, as a minimum double tracking your guitars... Then mixing and post production, how can this little thing make a difference at all? For playing live, at least in my experience, the audience, regardless of how discerning their ears are can barely tell the difference between a well made POD program let alone a live amp or a Kemper, regardless of how slick some of these guys think they are. I know the goal is to be as authentic as you can possibly be with recreating your amps but what do you stand to gain by this small bit of "air"? I'm not trolling, I'm really curious. My profiles from our studio sessions sound better than the amps themselves sounded the day we profiled them. I can't think of anything that needs to be added.

  • Some of you guys have ears like German Shepard's! lol When recording, especially since you're, as a minimum double tracking your guitars... Then mixing and post production, how can this little thing make a difference at all? For playing live, at least in my experience, the audience, regardless of how discerning their ears are can barely tell the difference between a well made POD program let alone a live amp or a Kemper, regardless of how slick some of these guys think they are. I know the goal is to be as authentic as you can possibly be with recreating your amps but what do you stand to gain by this small bit of "air"? I'm not trolling, I'm really curious. My profiles from our studio sessions sound better than the amps themselves sounded the day we profiled them. I can't think of anything that needs to be added.


    +111111111111111111


    So very very true, having recorded for over 30 years I can definitely say the Kemper is just awe inspiring, compared to how hard it was to get a decent guitar sound both live and in the studio, where now it's all there at the touch of a few buttons !!!!
    But I guess the more we get the more we want hey ? ?(

  • Some of you guys have ears like German Shepard's! lol When recording, especially since you're, as a minimum double tracking your guitars... Then mixing and post production, how can this little thing make a difference at all? For playing live, at least in my experience, the audience, regardless of how discerning their ears are can barely tell the difference between a well made POD program let alone a live amp or a Kemper, regardless of how slick some of these guys think they are. I know the goal is to be as authentic as you can possibly be with recreating your amps but what do you stand to gain by this small bit of "air"? I'm not trolling, I'm really curious. My profiles from our studio sessions sound better than the amps themselves sounded the day we profiled them. I can't think of anything that needs to be added.


    Because the Kemper allows a new way for folks to obsess. I'm with you. The Kemper's level of authenticity absolutely fascinates me. I'm more interested in using this incredible tool to create music than obsessively A/B clips looking for flaws. But we all enjoy the guitar in different ways...