Profile-Volume

    I had my analog-rig profiled (Two Rock combined with Fender Deluxe Reverb) at a volume I usually use during rehearsals and live-gigs (in clubs). I'm very satisfied with the results as long as I use this profile at the same or around the same volume level. It really sounds like the original, no problem so far.


    But when I change the playing-volume of the profile to a higher degree (louder but also more dimed) the sound and also the behavior compared to my original rig really differs a lot. I can approximate the original by using the tone stack intensively, but I'm wondering, if I need to profile my rig at different volume levels to achieve the best profiling results for different applications (small club, rehearsal-room, large stage, open-air stages).


    Any recommendations or similar experiences out there ??

    Changing the play volume should not affect your sound as much. There are two issues that may have factored in terms of perceived sounds:

    • the loudness effect.
      Human hearing's sensitivity to the various frequencies changes with the level of the sound. When you change sound volume you perceive a different tone.


    • The environment resonances.
      The action of a wooden stage or desk, and the resonances given by the walls (corners, ceilings etc.) can affect the sound a lot. The more the room resonances, the more your sound will change when you change its volume.

    So, in order to troubleshoot your profiles, you might want to try and play with your real rig in the same room, with the same disposition in the room, and at different volumes. Does it sound the same as the profile?
    It would also be a good idea to profile your rig at a different volume (saturation?) and see how it behaves at different volumes.
    Also, by which controls are you rising or dimming the play volume? And how are you listening to your profile?
    HTH :)

    Gianfranco has already mentioned what are likely to be the key issues.
    I just want to stress even more that taken for granted the same monitoring/listening environment the effect of the "Fletcher Munson" can be dramatic, especially but not restricted to crunch and overdriven sounds. A difference of few decibel can make a dull or dark sound a lot brighter and vice versa. It is also true that profiling a rig at different level will give different results as all the gain staging involved (microphone capsule, mic head amp, preamp and so on) will react differently, not to mention speaker (cab) movement and stress when driven by your amps at higher levels. The only solution to the issue is experimenting with the interactions of those different elements in order to find a way (or sever ways) of getting your sound as close as possible as the one you get from your amps.

    Thank you for your replies,


    at first to the questions:


    Live on a large stage I use my (powered)Kemper (with a 2x12" Celestion Box) and I normally don't need to have my stage-sound be monitored. So my level is set by the Kemper's master volume and it's the stage's guitar sound for me. I don't know if our bassman and our drummer do have the guitar on their monitors, they make their own monitoring on stage. In this situation I use the Kemper around the level, where I profiled my rig. Everything is allright.


    In clubs without P.A., the Kemper and the 2x12"-Box is not only for stage-sound but also directed to the public and that's the problem. I have to dial up the Kemper's level and my normal level exceeds the level at what I made the different profiles (clean, crunch, lead). Especially my gained-solo-sound becomes dull and middy and misses the sparkle of the original profiled sound and also the attack is lossing (a slight sweep-effect occurs when I hit the strings).


    It might be this loudness-effect as "viabcroce" describes. But can I avoid this by profiling at different volumes ???

    This is why I asked "Also, by which controls are you rising or dimming the play volume?". If you use the Rig volume or the Master volume, the sonic qualities of a profile are untouched. The only two elements chiming in are ear sensitivity by different levels and environmental factors, as I tried to point out in my previous post.
    OTOH, the Celestion box could be put under stress by a higher volume... are you sure you're not having it distorting?


    Also, is the box connected to the Monitor Out? And, if this is the case, are you having the Cab switched off on the Monitor Out?
    In case Cab is not off (some people report they like it better this way), it could be interesting to try different settings of the Character parameter (in the Cab section), which is meant (if reduced) to return a flatter response from the virtual cab.
    Reducing the peaks and valleys of the simulated cab would help getting a more linear response from your box ah higher pressure levels.


    :)

    if you are maxing out the rig volume you could be clipping the output? I was doing that and had to turn down all my rig volumes. are your input and output led's turning red?

    The adaption of the box to the Kemper so far is o.k. (Monitor out, Cab off, Master Volume)


    I'm just considering, if possibly the box is stressed/distorting because the Master Volume was on 70% and my output volume really sometimes turns to yellow or even to red.


    I'll give it a try and will profile my analog-rig at a pretty high volume-level.


    After then I will report.


    Thanx so long

    Well, you wrote that your sound changes even when dimming volume down tho, that's why F-M effect comes to mind.


    Anyway, the Output LED turning red implies that the output is clipping, the Profiler can't know if the cab is distorting as well.