Michael Wagener Rig Pack

  • My opinion :thumbup:



    I agree with VESmedic all the way. You cannot compare the drum samples to the Kemper. Even the Andy Sneap Drum samples he did are not all the way processed to what he would use in his personal mixes. Why would he ever want to do that? He is not going to give away his signature sound that pays the bills ect. People come to guys like Andy for their master drums and guitar work. People like him can spend 3 days making a toontrack pack that sounds better than most people can do in a months’ time. But in reality when they are recording a band they themselves can put a months’ time into the real product that will never be available for sale. So in theory the drum loops are about 40% of what they would really use and the Kemper as we all know with proper technique can be about 90%+. Now let’s go on the shared opinion for the Kemper. I know Collin Richardson and them literally keep their profiles in lock and key as to not get out. If Collin and Sneap gave away their profiles that they spent all their time mic’ing properly ect for MAJOR productions, they would be outa biz. Again their profiles are about 99% accurate if not better and are used on major productions. Here is my take on this for anyone that cares. I have heard the Lasse Lammert’s free pack compared to his personal one. While the free ones are still the best available they are not as good as his "personal" ones for his records and or paying customers. They mark his trademark sound. Lasse himself has been quoted about not feeling well on giving out his profiles and I believe he would agree with myself and VESmedic and proves most points about this write up.
    Point I’m trying to make guys is that most producer packs if they ever come out will be good but still nothing that was ever used by them on your favorite bands tone they recorded. And that’s what VESmedic was basically saying. I have heard some of these profiles VESmedic speaks of and they are night and day different than you could ever commercially buy. PERIOD! He is doing people a favor by putting samples up so you can hear what can actually be done with proper gear and mic’ing with the kemper. Again just my opinion. :thumbup:
    So let’s not beat each other up and make this a peaceful forum 8) :D :thumbsup:

  • Looks like every major and less major producer have a private spokesperson on this forum. I am just waiting for Ozzy Osbourne or at least very close friend of him to pop in ;) I also know a couple of people who have Hendrix profiles made by the man himself, but can't share, sorry. :D

  • Looks like every major and less major producer have a private spokesperson on this forum. I am just waiting for Ozzy Osbourne or at least very close friend of him to pop in ;) I also know a couple of people who have Hendrix profiles made by the man himself, but can't share, sorry. :D



    No worries.... Hendrix's tone sucked anyways :D

  • I think each side has some valid points, but just listen to the interview where he asks Wagener if the Kemper is so good he should get rid of his amps and cabs. He says no, because there's always a need to find a new sound that isn't already in the profiler. In that respect, producers and engineers can't be replaced by rig packs.


    I mean, the argument that rig packs would put these people out of jobs is a bit ridiculous to be honest. Listen to any band with more than 1 album. Do any of the albums have the EXACT same tone? Of course not - in fact, most bands like to try to find a new sound for every album, even if it isn't a rabid departure from their old sound.


    In fact, I think the opposite argument could be made. I didn't know who Lasse was before his rig pack was released (granted I'm not in a signed band or looking to have an album produced). But it certainly increases his exposure. Let's say I do want to record. Now I know that Lasse can get great sounds. Moreover, after doing a studio session with him, I know that I will have those exact sounds in my profiler! His rig pack is a testament to both his quality level and his knowledge of a fairly wide variety of tones.


    It could even open up new business opportunities. If Wagener is in his studio in Nashville and he's producing my album but I need to go to Los Angeles for the week, I can still work with him to find X or Y sound, have him send me the .kipr file, load it up and record some parts even though I'm not physically in the studio. Someone could take the idea to the next level and have complete virtual studios. This would allow them to service more clients and make more money.


    You have people commercially releasing rigs right now - they have adapted new business models to profit off new technology. That's how businesses tend to work. I know people say, "SO EZ TO PIR8!!!" but given the rigs' relatively-low price, I think it's a moot issue. You know what else is easy to pirate? Movies. Music. Video Games. Books. I guess no one is commercially producing such works anymore? I would be curious if Andy or Armin were to chime in saying that piracy is killing their businesses. I would assume that a profile can be copyrighted, and it is relatively easy to determine if a modified profile came from some copyrighted profile.


    Part of what makes music great is that everyone is trying to push into new styles and new sounds. Rig packs are great for hobby players, cover/live bands, home recordings, and demo's. But I think any artist that wants to get noticed and make a statement would choose to work with a producer to develop new sounds using real gear rather than using rigs from a mass-marketed rig pack.


    If Wagener chooses to release a rig pack from tones he found 20 years ago, I don't think that'll have much, if any, impact on his current business. Or it may actually increase current business.


    If people don't like giving out their signature tones, someone please explain the rig exchange.


    I'm not saying that its a no-brainer as a producer or engineer to choose to release your KPA rigs or not. I don't know. There may be personal as well as business reasons for or against. I just want to present some counter-arguments. I think it's foolish to think the issue is clear-cut.


  • Agree 100% ! :thumbup:

  • Looks like every major and less major producer have a private spokesperson on this forum. I am just waiting for Ozzy Osbourne or at least very close friend of him to pop in ;)



    I won't believe the Ozzy spokesperson till he snorts a line of ants.


    I'm really really really happy for you guys with the pro profiles and I get it....us mear mortals will never get our hands on them. :whistling:


  • Exactly!!!

  • It is kind of a bummer that most KPA owners will never realize the full potential of the KPA because they do not have access to professional studios nor have the ability to make such profiles even with access to a professional studio.

    The Kemper Profiling Amp is the best musical invention since the Electric Guitar and the Marshall Amp .

  • It is kind of a bummer that most KPA owners will never realize the full potential of the KPA because they do not have access to professional studios nor have the ability to make such profiles even with access to a professional studio.


    I think every KPA owner does realize the full potential of the KPA because our Kempers are full of "Professional Studio" Profiles.
    Most of the Factory Presets were done in Peter Fischers studio and Nashville Studios...that's about as pro as a studio can get.
    Besides, many of the free Profiles have been done in Pro studios.

  • It doesn´t matter if it´s the KPA or another - for example an expensive amp with a expensive box. You will never get a top notch recorded sound when you own the amp and only got minor knowledge/experience or equipment of recording. So it´s as in normal live! If someone got the knowledge and you want to have some work done, you have to pay for it. Someone does it for living. It should be taken for granted. Btw., a good recorded guitartone doesn´t mean you´ve got thousands of cd sold. It´s one single step. :)

  • Let me add some spices to the mess:
    Michael Wagener explicitly mentions that he pretty much always uses combinations of amps to create the final sound. I have yet to see someone of the experts here take this into account.
    The fact that you potentially could get highest quality Kobe beef (perfectly profiled individual amps) from Mr. Wagener doesn't necessarily mean that you (as a client) would immediately turn into a 5 star chef, right? And I doubt that Mr. Wagener would turn jobless just because he sells high quality meat. You know what I mean, right?


    PS: Why is this thread in "Free rigs and profiles"? I don't expect him to do this work for free. :)

  • Lightbox, I think you missed MW's point about using the Kemper with multiple amps/cabs. In the interview he says he profiles those multiple amps at the same time, mixing them down at the right ratios before returning to the Kemper, creating ONE profile of multiple amps/cabinets. AND he says that the result is virtually identical to the original. He also says that once he's found whatever the sound he wants is, he commits to it; and that's why he likes the whole multi-amp/cab rig as a single Kemper rig - because then he's got that exact tone and doesn't want to go back and start playing with mix, or adding effects to one amp but not the other, etc.


    I would still agree that such profiles isn't going to turn anyone into a 5 star chef, but it'd be a better tool towards getting MW's recorded sounds then if we just got MW's single amp/cab profiles.

  • I for one can totally imagine this to happen, Michael Wegener releasing a rig pack that is.
    Franz Plasa did it, too, although this time there were no multi-amp rigs among them.


    What alienates me in this whole discussion is that there is a wrong impression evoked, as to only pro's can create pro sounding profiles.
    This is as wrong as it gets.
    The profiler has the ability to capture an amp very accurately, and with some work, experimentation and building up skills everybody can get pro results.


    Sadly it seems to me that among the Kemperists there are many users who really think the grass is greener on the other side.
    It isn't.

  • No offense to Franz , but he ain't no MW, I never even heard of Franz until his pack showed up for the Kemper. and to be honest there are only 2 or 3 amps out of that pack that sounded useable , the bassman and another ( forget) Very edgy overly bright sounds that I didn't really like !!! His credits, I don't know and don't really care, he could of produced the Black Album but the sounds from that pack itself aren't that great IMO. I've found better sounds from "nobody's" on the rig exchange. No offense to these "nobody's " 8|

  • Taste is subjective.
    I own a few F.P. Albums with outstanding guitar sounds.
    I will say though that only because somebody is more 'famous for x or y' doesn't necessarily mean better.
    I'm 100% sure both Franz and Michael would have a good laugh about a conversation like this as they're both from Hamburg and in the business for decades. And I'm sure they respect each other's work like real pro's do.