Clean Sense

  • strat 50's fat pu -> input sense +4


    that is the highest I can recall currently.


    Most of my guitars have low output PUs (vintage like or true vintage PUs)
    I have to admit that I considered turning it up a bit more - but stayed away from it, because the LED became yellow/orange more often. You might be right about the use of the LED! 8)


    I will investigate further ...


    Hendrik

    90% of the game is half-mental.

  • This and other posts show me that the clean sense was adjusted by watching the input LED, rather than trusting your ears.
    The new treshold you mention is only affecting the input LED, but no acoustic behaviour. Your Clean Sense setting should not have changed by that!


    It's maybe time to get rid of the input LED and use it for other functions


    Hmm, okay. I only adjusted clean sense because of red light led. Never actually had the "feeling" anything needs really a change.

  • With EMG:s and booster in guitar it isnt difficult to get input clipped at clean sense -12dB when playing hard.
    It could be easily heard on clean sound.
    This is the setup I have used for years in every my guitar so I´d like to see (hear...) maybe input sense say at least -14 dB.

  • This and other posts show me that the clean sense was adjusted by watching the input LED, rather than trusting your ears.
    The new treshold you mention is only affecting the input LED, but no acoustic behaviour. Your Clean Sense setting should not have changed by that!


    It's maybe time to get rid of the input LED and use it for other functions :)


    If i pick hard sometimes at -10.2 i can hear a clipping in clean sounds thats why dropped it to the lowest -12 which still shows the pesky red light on the input LED. Ive come to ignore the light now, it used to drive me insane at first but i just try not to look at it now :D

  • I have a different approach in mind. Since I joined the community, one of the topics that has kept coming up on the forum is the question of how to set clean sense correctly. It has been stated over and over again by CK that setting clean sense right is no problem at all. Yet, the scale has been changed and the behaviour of the LED has changed (I remember CK writing that the old behaviour wasn't ideal to give users a correct message). In the thread on "distortion stomps too loud - unusable" CK mentions that having set clean sense incorrectly might cause unwanted volume peaks - so there is an "incorrect" way of setting clean sense.
    This all shows me that there is still - after all these posts - some confusion on how to set clean sense correctly and I doubt that changing the range of clean sense as suggested by CK in this thread will put an end to this confusion.


    So my approach?
    Well, why don't the KPA experts take three different guitars (low output, mid output, extremely high output pickups) and record a video in which they demonstrate how to set clean sense - what might happen if clean sense is set incorrectly - and so on?!
    I guess it shouldn't be that much of a hassle and I guess that watching a demonstration might be more comprehensible than reading in this case. It might even turn out that the range of clean sense doesn't have to be changed at all.
    Just my thoughts.

    Edited once, last by joerch ().

  • regarding the stomps too loud thing, there is **currently** no Clean Sense setting that will allow my main guitar to level volume between clean and dirty on at least 2 different rigs. The volume isn't even close - clean is dramatically louder. Also, on at least some rigs (probably the only ones I've tested), turning the Gain all the way to 0 is noticeably louder than if I turn up the Gain, even with Clean Sense set to -12 db; but the difference is much closer than when toggling a stomp.


    but otherwise, yeah, it's pretty simple. Gain 0 and Gain 10 should have relatively the same volume. Dirty and clean Rigs with Volume and Cab Volume at 0 (and no EQ or effects altering volume) should be relatively the same volume, within a small range of variation. And make sure you can't hear any clipping in your clean tones that can't be explained by output clipping.

  • I've been reading thru these posts on Clean Sense and admittedly, I'm a beginner, so bear with me, but I am wondering if some users are mistakenly trying to use Clean Sense as a primary volume adjuster between clean and distorted profiles. Could someone just clarify how best to calibrate a clean and distorted profile volume wise and then adjust Clean Sense as required to accomplish what it is intended to do?


    I sense (pun intended) possible confusion on this issue and would hate to monkey with the firmware based on a misunderstanding of Clean Sense's function. Just my 2¢.

  • Just a question for me, if the Profiler will change the Clean Sense scale, did it affect our actual settings on the ducking effects that depends on the input level right now after the clean sense stage?

    I don´t think so, not as long as your guitar won´t be "out of scale" then. It would only change the relative value in regard to the min/max value. The actual input level would be same after you adjusted the clean sense once.

  • Sorry I'm late to the party, it a holiday week for us here in the US, so not much chance to check the forum. To answer the original post, I'm on firmware 2.1.1 (old scale where CS went from 0 to 10) and I was using the default 5 for quite a while. I also had the DS set to 0 (recall that the old scale for that went -5 to 5). With all the discussion over the last few weeks on this, I decided to experiment with those settings about a week ago. I found that for my strat, it really did get much more quiet when I rolled the gain down on a 5150 or other high gain amp. So I bumped it up from 5 to 7. Still got a little quieter. I tried 9, almost there, but still a tiny bit quieter at 0 gain and now the input light is flashing a touch of red but mostly green, so I set it back down to 8 as a compromise.


    In summary, if I were to use my ears and trust that it's not clipping even though the light is showing very brief red flashes, I would set it at 9 or 10 for my strat. However, since I haven't actually recorded the signal to see if it is in fact clipping, and I trust that the red light is accurate, I need to back it down to 8, and live with the slight volume drop I get. I would rather have that, than a clipped input.



    All the above tweaking was done with the DS at the default 0.

  • this question by CK is what made me confused.. 2.5(old) = +6 dB (new) .. :S my clean sense is set to 5.0 and FW 2.1


    Ok, so you are on the old scale. I think CK only refers to the dB scale implemented with 2.2.0. I don't think that the change in the range of clean sense will be applied to older KAOS. So if you don't feel the need to raise CS any further you'd be ok, though, as far as i understand.


  • This and other posts show me that the clean sense was adjusted by watching the input LED, rather than trusting your ears.
    The new treshold you mention is only affecting the input LED, but no acoustic behaviour. Your Clean Sense setting should not have changed by that!


    It's maybe time to get rid of the input LED and use it for other functions :)


    This is awesome news. Get rid of it! I'll yank it out right now...


    DonPetersen was helping me out with a problem (eek, I have to mail him a wav file, but have been tied up in knots at work) where my DI signal was clipping despite being sent through SPDIF and no gain being introduced anywhere in the signal other than the Kemper. But Don suggested that it's likely to be a clean sense related issue.


    I kept on wrestling with clean sense to try and correct the issue, but even if I went to -12, I would have similar results, i.e. clipping when palm muting, resulting in excess bass. At the same time, if I did that, my clean volumes were all too low vis-a-vis distorted profiles. And if I raised my settings, I'd get the dreaded red light.


    I'm using a super hot output Wilde Bill Lawrence L500XL, it's a magic pickup he made especially for me just because ;)... Can't change pups. I'm getting super results with the Kemper, but :S