Clean Sense

    Dear users,


    As you know we are always working to improve the Profiler.
    Lately we have noticed that some users with very hot passive pickups (guitar and bass) use a Clean Sense setting of -12 dB and still feel too loud.
    So there is the idea of shifting the range of Clean Sense toward the negative values in a future firmware update.


    Our question is:
    Is anyone using a Clean Sense setting that is greater than +6 dB (or 2.5 shown in older firmwares)?
    Such settings are required for instruments with a soft output level.


    If you do use settings greater than +6 dB, please reassure yourself that the perceived loudness on clean sounds is not higher than on distorted sounds, otherwise this setting should be revised.


    If a setting greater than +6 dB is necessary for your, then post it here!

    Not me.


    Glad to hear this has caught the mothership's attention. I still have not verified if the ideal clean sense setting is somewhere below -12 db on my high-output guitars, but that's currently where I keep the setting. I'll make it a priority to test. I have a D-Activator 8, Crunch Lab, and Blackouts in the bridge position of my 3 guitars. All are quite hot, but the Blackouts is just insane (and won't be around for too much longer).

    I am on -12db on my main guitar, balance between clean and distorted rigs is fine for me. DI via SPDIF comes with peaks at -6.0dB max, so that's a little hot but ok to work with.

    Christoph, while we have your attention, I wanted to ask a few questions about Clean Sense so everyone is on the same page. Simple yes/no's should suffice.


    1) When saying to set it so that clean and distorted sounds are the same volume, do you mean strictly on the same rig by adjusting the Gain parameter?


    2) If using Clean Sense to level volume between different rigs with different levels of distortion, should we expect ALL rigs to have the same overall volume if Volume and Cab Volume are set to +/- 0 db? Even when the rigs have vastly different profiles? I remember you saying somewhere that extreme care was taken so that the profiling process would produce profiles with relatively the same output volume. But is it so consistent that leveling any pair of rigs using Clean Sense will virtually guarantee all rigs with the same Cab Volume/Volume settings are also leveled?


    3) If clean sense is set correctly for a rig on the edge of breakup, should we expect toggling internal boosters before the amp profile to retain volume neutrality (while obviously increasing the amount of distortion)? What about reducing signal level via a booster?


    4) Same question as above but for external boosters.


    Thanks.


    Just checked with a single coil strat, and even this one is in the negative range... So shifting the scale sounds like a real good idea to me...

    Is it possible that the issue was introduced with one of the latest firmware updates? Just have this impression.


    Furthermore the problem is more related to some profiles, but not for all. I have clean sense set to -12db and still see a red led pumping on input level. Guitar is Luke III either neck or bridge HB.

    For those using > +6 db, keep in my Christoph's OP:


    "If you do use settings greater than +6 dB, please reassure yourself that the perceived loudness on clean sounds is not higher than on distorted sounds, otherwise this setting should be revised.


    If a setting greater than +6 dB is necessary for your, then post it here! "


    So do some tests and let us know if you feel it NEEDS to be that high or your cleans gets clearly overshadowed by distorted. Make sure you test this on the same rig by changing the Gain parameter, or toggling a boost on/off. Volume differences between rigs can be adjusted and compensated for via Volume or Cab Volume, although I await answers to my questions above to know exactly what we should expect in this regard.

    Will be testing my rig over the 2 days hopefully you can wait ?(
    This has been a muddy area for me so all the discussion is beginning to make sense to me slowly ;)
    To think we can have something that still sounds so kick azz though no matter what!!!
    Still on the never ending honeymoon     :love:


    Thanks again Mr. CK from the Sunny South in Dixie. :thumbup:


    To 1)
    No, you could also test different rigs.


    To 2)
    Yes we have taken this care. However there is always slight volume variations, as they are situation dependent (different guitar, different PU, different playing style).
    But your question says also, that you have never tried out what you have asked. Trying it out takes a few minutes only.


    To 3) and 4)
    Boosters try to maintain the volume neutrality. At some point this is not possible due to the authenticity of the respective effects.

    Quote from Raoul23

    Yep just checked my KPA and its on - 12


    Sorry it was -10.2 when i first upgarded to the firmware with the new style threshold :pinch:


    This and other posts show me that the clean sense was adjusted by watching the input LED, rather than trusting your ears.
    The new treshold you mention is only affecting the input LED, but no acoustic behaviour. Your Clean Sense setting should not have changed by that!


    It's maybe time to get rid of the input LED and use it for other functions :)