Response from KPA support regarding switching times- BAD news

    Just for my weary head: Chamelious, you pointed to the song as an example where the lag/dip would kill your LIVE performance? I assume you recorded this great piece doing overdubs and not actually switching while recording, right?

    Quote from HELL-G

    Just for my weary head: Chamelious, you pointed to the song as an example where the lag/dip would kill your LIVE performance? I assume you recorded this great piece doing overdubs and not actually switching while recording, right?

    lols, yes of course :)


    Guitars on this album were reamped. Cleans and distortion recorded with different guitars.

    I really liked this song.


    The only thing you can do is to buy second Kemper I am afraid. I am sure you are aware that you may run into similar problems even using all analogue gear.

    I think you have a point in saying that the slight delay is annoying. To be honest ... we'll have to wait a while for a GREAT solution. How long did it take for car engineers to invent the dual-clutch transmission, how long did it take keyboard manufacturers to come up with Smooth Sound Transition when switching patches as found in the Korg Kronos series of keyboards? I'm pretty sure it will come some time in the future. But I don't expect it to happen soon.


    In the meantime there's workarounds

    Quote from DonPetersen

    right.
    this is a very common thing to do.
    even in photography (and I mean analog & manual focus) there is the simple rule that you can't photograph what you see.
    You'll be too late.
    You have to release the shutter / switch the rig a little before.

    Whilst that's true, I've never experienced such a long delay on any piece of equipment in the past. On every amp I've ever used, I'd simply press the channel change switch on the beat. It seems i got lucky perhaps.

    I would've thought any digital amp (profiler/modeller) would have some kind of latency between the change of files. I guess it's kind of like opening multiple images in Photoshop or something - the computer has to load the image into the RAM before it can display it.


    I'm not sure why you would just assume that a Fractal box will have zero latency when switching patches. Even if it is a little faster, it doesn't sound like that's going to sate you.


    Three options:


    1) Get better at your switching/footwork so that the gap has minimal musical/performance impact.
    2) See if your assumption is true and try a Fractal, it might be slightly faster. You just won't have the Kemper's sound/features anymore.
    3) Line up 10 amps and 10 pedals on the stage and use analog switching, but half of them will probably give you the same grief.


    No solution involving switching rigs is instantaneous. As others have mentioned many real amps react in a similar way.


    I'd suggest option 1.

    Quote from chamelious

    Whilst that's true, I've never experienced such a long delay on any piece of equipment in the past. On every amp I've ever used, I'd simply press the channel change switch on the beat. It seems i got lucky perhaps.


    to be fair:
    the channels of an amp are always 'present' all you do is switch the routing of your signal to one of them.


    In the Profiler, a whole new amp profile is loaded together with a complete cabinet section and up to six effects plus delay and reverb.


    If that means you have to modify your rig switching habits a (literally) very little bit, it seems like no big deal to me. ;)


    A critical switching time like this must be achieved probably only with analog stuff, but one should need also an istantaneous syncronization between foot-hands-mind really difficult to achieve...
    I found the switching time of the KPA really good and absolutely within the standards for a digital device (that cannot be, by definition, with zero latency), but I personally agree that the main "issue" it's not the time requested for the switch but those milliseconds of drop in volume. Also in my "poor" playing I feel all those milliseconds of volume loss while I'm switching, but I don't know if from the Kemper team in the future they can improve it, for sure it will not be easy... And I believe Fractal, or other parties, will have similar problem...


    And by the way... great piece of music the linked one :thumbup:

    Quote from chamelious

    Hiya, here's the vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqETrZPZt…ZgPcWhEPmmC_N-A


    I'd be interested to hear if you consider this almost instantaneous. I assumed there was a problem somewhere, but maybe i just have higher standards...?!

    Your "test" in the video is misleading. You'll notice that the "first change" is fast, a second one in a short time (click-click) is delayed. This is a side effect of internal prioritization. You don't switch twice within half a second in a musical context (but you do in the video). The Profiler will not load two rigs within a short amount of time. Usually, those kind of changes happen if you browse with the browse knob over the rig pool. The prioritization happens to keep the Profiler more snappy.


    In a musical context, the switch time is quite okay. Of course, there is always room for improvement, time will tell.

    By the way ... have you been thinking about increasing the delay to a point where you can tap the button 1/4 or 1/8 note BEFORE you need the other rig? This way you could tap much easier and there's MIDI controllers that can implement command delays, like the Liquid Foot controllers. Just trying to find a way to make it more comfortable for you ... and increasing delay instead of decreasing is a valid option, imho, for this specific use case. :) Think like:


    ONE .... TWO ... THREE ... TAP ... BANGGGG :thumbup:

    Quote from lightbox

    By the way ... have you been thinking about increasing the delay to a point where you can tap the button 1/4 or 1/8 note BEFORE you need the other rig? This way you could tap much easier and there's MIDI controllers that can implement command delays, like the Liquid Foot controllers. Just trying to find a way to make it more comfortable for you ... and increasing delay instead of decreasing is a valid option, imho, for this specific use case. :) Think like:


    ONE .... TWO ... THREE ... TAP ... BANGGGG :thumbup:

    As others have said dude, the main issue really is the weird dips in volume, not the delay itself.

    Modern digital gear cross-fades the two sounds when there is a program change - if you are going to change programs while sustaining a note or chord, you are going to hear it. If you leave a 1/16 note or more of space before the measure, you won't hear the cross-fade, AND the downbeat of the next measure will sound more powerful that it would have without that space.



    BTW - you would have *really* hated older digital gear - they muted the output until the program change was completed.

    I've been using my Kemper live for months and have never noticed anything bad when switching between rigs (except for the very first time after boot up).
    Saying that I don't use performance mode, I just send CC numbers from a rocktron all access (haven't worked out how to program it for performance mode yet).