BRAND NEW to Kemper & I have some questions

  • Hi Everyone,
    This past week, I stumbled upon the Kemper Profiler PowerRack and it's certainly got my attention. But I have a few questions and I'm hoping you guys can help me with some info.


    Here's some very brief info about what kind of stuff I play, because I know it usually helps to provide better answers if you know what the user is trying to accomplish. I've NEVER used an amp modeler (or in this case, profiler) or anything along those lines. I do understand the concept though, so I'm not confused there. I've ALWAYS used tube amps. For the last 10 years I've used Mesa Triple Rectifiers along with a Mesa 2x12 cab or 4x12 cab and I Iike to play quite loud on stage (usually have those Mesas up to around a 5, and if you've played one, you know that is loud enough to where you can feel the volume). I play in a working cover band (which is why I'm hoping a Kemper would be a great fit for me). Right now, I'm using a PRS 513 guitar, Mesa Roadster 2x12 combo amp and a G-System for all my effects and channel switching.


    What I'd like to accomplish is to have great tone (duh, who doesn't), make my setup easier to lug around (the Mesa weighs just under 100lbs by itself), and be able to reproduce many of the sounds that a modern rock cover band needs.


    So here are my questions:


    1. From what I've read, the best way to reproduce the most accurate sounds using a Kemper would be to send the direct signal to the front of house, and then also to get a very high quality FRFR monitor to use to hear myself on stage. Assuming I get one of the really nice monitors (Atomic, or Matrix, etc.), will the sound be harsh and ear piercing? I know that all depends on what I dial in to the Kemper. But I'm just wondering if it'll lack the "balls" of a tube amp when cranked; which leads me to my 2nd question . . .


    2. Can this version (the one with the power amp built in) crank? I mean, will I have to lean down toward my monitor to hear my guitar signal coming through? I'm worried that it'll be so thin, that it'll just get washed out by the drummer's cymbals.


    3. I know these things are AWESOME for recording and studio use. It seems like 95% of the videos I see on YouTube are all recording/studio based. But how do they sound and perform in a gigging situation? I love the concept of hearing exactly what the audience is hearing in terms of my tone/sound. But I'm just worried that it'll sound so weak on stage if I'm using a monitor as opposed to a guitar cab. I know I can use a guitar cab for me on stage and get that real guitar "feel" of the volume, and then send the direct signal to the front of house. But then, I won't be hearing what the audience is hearing. So I'm just wondering, is there any setup out there that will result in me hearing what the audience is hearing (for the most part) while still maintaining the "balls" of the sound on stage?


    4. Effects. How do you all like the effects? I'm currently using a G-System and I'm very happy with that. I generally don't need a huge variety of effects. As long as I can control the parameters of some reverb, delay, chorus, flange, tremolo and whammy, along with a good wah sound, I'm happy.


    5. Here's a BIG one . What is the best way to control this thing from a floorboard? I'm using the G-System now and I love how that is laid out. But, in order to afford the Kemper, I'd need to sell the G-System. So I couldn't use the G-System to control it. Plus, I couldn't justify using the G-System just as a $1,400 foot controller.


    I'd really like to be able to try this kind of setup, but unfortunately, nobody carries these things in stock in the stores (not even Guitar Center). So I'd have to order one, plus order a high end monitor and just HOPE it all works out to be as good as I'm hoping. And to spend nearly $3,000 on a hope, is not what I'd prefer to do. Especially since I'm not sure about the return policies of the Kemper from Guitar Center or whatever monitor I buy.


    I realize much of this was probably of the "newb" variety in terms of questions. But in regards to running this kind of setup, I'm a newb. Any help would be appreciated!

  • Welcome! ;)
    You will hear several opinions regarding your questions, so I will start with mine, briefly.


    1. For me, FRFR is the way to go. I'm using Atomic CLR oder Yamaha DXR 10 and the result is a powerful signal, with both clarity and balls. No thin-ness, no ear piercing.


    2. the powered version can be very loud, but so can the non- powered version with a good FRFR. My CLR or DXR can be insanely loud.


    3. if you can't do the paradigm shift of FRFR you can still use a guitar cab for monitoring and send the main outs to FOH. This will also sound awesome.


    4. I love the FX, period. It depends on what you want/need of course, but all the basics are covered (and there's also some more experimental stuff) and this in very high quality.


    5. the community is waiting for the Kemper controller. In the meantime there are already very good solutions with Behringer FCB 1010 boards and Kemper dedicated eproms. (UnO for Kemper and Eureka prom.).

  • 1.-3. You can try the Powerhead with your Mesa cab first.
    I use Kemper so at a rehearsal and it sounds and feels like a tube amp – fat, punchy sound, feedback, everything as usual.
    It is more as enough power to play with acoustic drummer (we play some sort of metalcore and my master volume is on 5,5 by poweramp boost +3dB).


    4. No worry, they are in comparison to G-System (I had one) very good, and very easy to dial.


    5. I use Liquid Foot 12+ with Mission Pedal for Switch/Wah/Volume, but it is pretty expensive. #No experience with Behringer, I hear only a lot o good things about it.


    So, I would (as I did already :) order the Kemper first, then check it with your cab and the g-system – connect it as normal guitar head.
    For me that simply worked! It felt so good and sounded awesome (with factory profiles :-). If you like it, then try to replace your g-system with Kemper effects – this task could take some more time (depends how intensive you use the effects). And when you are satisfied you can order some FRFR an check it, if you do not like the feeling of FRFR, you can always use your cab or buy (as I did :) some Matrix NL12 light weight cab.

  • I have a power rack going into a Soldano 4x12 and it is plenty loud, I am used to cranking my Soldano SLO 100 up around 5 through it, so I can relate to your volume lol. I am currently using my G system to control the kemper, it is really limited as a controller, at first I was thinking of using it in 4 cable mode along with the Kemper but I like the Kemper effects, so I haven't bothered. The G system will go when I get a dedicated controller, I am waiting for the Kemper version so I can decide between it and a liquid foot plus. I have only played my Soldano head once since I got my Kemper....and I love my Soldano :D


    As far as the FRFR VS cabinet debate goes, I have my cabinet set-up between my two main speaker (QSC HPR153i's), the QSC's are clearer but the cabinet sounds good as well and the mix of the 3 sounds really good.

  • FRFR means full-range, flat response. IOW, what you put into it is what should come out. In a normal situation, you mic your cab and send that to the PA. If you mic your cab on axis and close to the cap, it will likely sound brighter than your cab "in the room". But if you mic it to get a similar sound as the actual cab, it should sound like the cab, not shrill or thin. What your tone sounds like using an FRFR simply depends on the profiles you are using - how they were mic'ed, how they were EQ'ed. You can also apply your own EQ and tweak the profiles in the KPA. Shrill, thin tone is not a problem in general. One of the biggest big draws of the KPA is that the profiles already have all the mic'ing baked in - you just plug and play. You get consistent tone through your monitors and to your audience night after night - just a bit of EQ'ing and reverb adjustment for the room. And you don't have to lug around the guitar cabinets or spend time mic'ing them.


    A good monitor will sound the same at low volumes as high volumes (taking into account the whole fletcher-munson thing). Many monitors have their own power amp built in, so you wouldn't NEED the powered KPA, but if you did end up using the 2x12 or 4x12, you would need something to power them - not necessarily the powered KPA. You could get an external amp, but that's more gear to keep track of. I think you'd be fine with a powered FRFR monitor, but you could always get the powered KPA and try it through the 2x12 vs. an unpowered FRFR monitor.

  • We should point out tho that not all the so called FRFR systems are really linear and transparent. For a given profile, the sound of several "FRFR" systems may vary a lot, because of flaws in design, building, or other compromises. "FRFR" is nothing but a slogan, and a really good system has to be proven first.

  • It certainly is, as long as an FRFR cab keeps its promises... and premises. The point is: not all the FRFR cabs sound good just because they're tagged as such


    :)


    Do you have an example for a bad sounding FRFR solution that is tagged as such?
    In my experience the ones that bother to tag themself as FRFR, in other words devices that aim for the guitarist/modeler/profiler market explicitely, all sound very good.


    Only the cheap entry level monitor cabs don't.


    That's why I think that FRFR is a useful term describing devices that seek linearity. For the shopping guitarist this means a quality promise.
    Even though CK hates the term (I know;) )

  • I don't use the term FRFR like you do. I apply it to every system (or subsystem) which is aimed at linearly reproducing audio signals. In this regard, all the PA system are FRFR by definition (no PA-maker will tell you that their systems are not linear).


    Having said this, in the time I've played through a number of crappy small and medium PA systems (which have to be linear but as a matter of fact are not) I didn't bother to remember the name of. You know, fake brands, sub-brands and the like. Bummy bass, piercing highs, muddy and "forward" (or "backward") mids... you name them.


    The same applies to (too) many studio monitors, which are not linear nor musical. Many KRK systems for example, and for example Genelec 8030, which I have happily sold.


    It doesn't matter if they make a guitar sound good to the player/listener, this doesn't imply linearity nor transparency. A linear system has to sound good (and I mean faithful) with large spectrum signals (different kinds of music programs).
    When using a Profiler, an "FRFR" system can sound good to one's ears, but as long as it's not linear and transparent it won't reproduce the profile as it is, which is what matters by its own definition IMO.


    All the above-mentioned systems did not sound good. Others do, of course :)

  • Yes, but that is my point. I think that you generalize the term FRFR.
    I'm pretty sure that the term was only brought up somewhere in the Axe- FX forum when the community was starting to search for adequate amplification for their Axes and realized the mediocrity (and often crappiness) of all the solutions you have given an example of above ( and I know them all, too ;) ).


    When you ask a PA cab manufacturer about FRFR he will ask: 'Whats that?'
    The PA market does not really bother about linearity and equally this term.


    The makers of dedicated solutions do.
    I only know 3 that even use the term.


    1. Atomic
    2. KPA-Solutions
    3. Matrix


    3a. Xitone doesn't use the term, but at leas implies FRFR.


    Do you know more of them?
    To me this no coincidence. The highend makers use the term, the others don't.
    Therefore it is a quality promise to me.

  • I agree Ingolf, but if you think of it this is not my point. Now you know the way I use the term, so you can read my original post by simply replacing "FRFR" with "linear and transparent" if you will :)


    I think that, while many (not most, specially in the high-end) PA systems are not very linear and transparent, they should. A good hardware system leaves the sound man to take care of hyping whatever he want, without imposing strong colours.


    OTOH, studio monitors should definitely be linear and transparent, and many of them are not by any means. IOW, they fail their purpose, while many among those who buy them have the expectation (the hope) that they actually are linear and transparent. If you read a few of the posts on the Net, you can very often read this kind of expectation or belief (be it implicit or explicit), specially among the youngsters.


    This is my point: not all things which are supposed (or tought) to be linear and transparent are, as a matter of fact.


    Finally, let me underline that even those items you've listed as "legit FRFR" sound different from each other. This means that there are different degrees of linearity and transparency, and that audio fidelity is always a compromise.
    If this is true, one item will be less faithful to the input signal than another, and this (regardless the fact that a single musician can personally like one over another, and the fact that with certain uses the difference can be negligible) makes interesting for those into audio to determine (or understand) what's best on the measure desk, and why.


    Personally, I've been into audio and hi-fi for 35 years, and am very passionate and interested in all these aspects. I can easily see how they can be of little or no relevance to someone else, it's just a passion and a special way to look at things :)
    This doesn't mean I can't enjoy spending an evening with a Pignose and a LP, or can't play my Profiler through a bass amp.


    :)

  • Agreed to all above. ;)
    And I think we can both agree that ftrue idelity is an ideal difficult to achieve and in all honesty likely impossible to achieve given that there are many more variables than the reproduction of audio, also the important role of the room the reproduction system is in and, last but not least and IMO very very important, the status of the receptionist's hearing.


    Well, now where in ethereal highs and very OT, ain't we? :)

  • Thanks for the answers guys. I'm just struggling because I LOVE the sounds of this thing for studio use. But the main purpose of me wanting one is to be able to take those sounds and effects, to the stage, yet still be able to hear myself with ease (we play at a relatively loud stage volume) and to have a good tone. I like my tone with the Mesa, but I'm tired of lugging everything around. I just worried about expecting this thing to sound really good, spending $2,700 on it, then another $600-$700 on a solid monitor, and then whatever the footswitch costs (if the thing ever comes out), only to find it sounds thin or harsh when played live.


    I won't be able to use my Mesa cab with it because I'll need to sell the Roadster combo to put funds toward this new setup. So that's the issue. I'd feel a lot better if I could find some YouTube videos of people using this thing in a LIVE situation with a band. But it seems like 99% of what is out there is all based on the profiling of amps. That's a cool feature, but not what I'd mainly be using it for.

  • Oh, 2 more questions.


    • When changing between presets, is there any delay at all? Or do they change instantly? Since I'd be using this for live situations, I need something that is able to switch between presets that I've created instantly.
    • Is this a generally quiet rig in terms of noise? Not just feedback, but the overall resistance to hum and other kinds of noise? The reason I ask is because right now, I'm running a G-System with my Mesa Roadster. The G-System has been a pain in the *ss to quiet down. It's a VERY noisy system, especially when using the 4-cable method. I've got it quiet now, but I had to go out and spend a lot of money and time accumulating extra gear to get it quiet (like an ISP Decimator G-String, Ebtech Hum Eliminators, balanced cables, etc.). Does the Kemper require particular cables or other non-built-in noise control equipment to get it quiet at high volumes and high gain? Again, I'd be using the version that has the power amp built in and going right in to a high end monitor. No guitar cab or other amp involved.

    Thanks!

  • Reassure yourself! Enough pros are using a Profiler live nowadays, i can't believe you've not found a single post or a single tube video showing it.


    Switching time is not istantaneous (it also depends on the efficiency of the pedalboard), but those in the know report it's comparable with the Axe-Fx.


    Electrically speaking, the Profiler is well done, with a lot of ground lifts. In (electrically) noisy environments, balanced cables are the election choice, specially when decent lengths are required. If the mains are polluted, tho, other countermeasures should be taken at the source.


    :)

  • Yeah, I guess instantaneously was a poor choice of wording. I just want to make sure I'm not playing live, go to change presets and find out there is a 1/2 second delay. That sounds small, but it's enough to really throw timing off for certain things.


    As far as finding YouTube videos of people using it live, I've only found ONE video of someone using it live. Nearly every video is showing it in the studio or the profiling part of it.