Looking for basic recording info/tutorial

  • I think I'm ready to dip my toe into recording (not re-amping) from my Kemper. I have the non-powered Kemper rack with the mains going to JBL monitors. My computer is a windows PC (Vista 64) with a Creative Labs sound card. I've figured out how to go from the Kemper with a 1/4" mains out 'y' cable to the 1/8" line input on the sound card and get it to record. But this is really limited.


    So...for a beginner amateur, what are the options? I've looked at the Wiki, but it seems to focus on re-amping when I searched for recording. What is a good beginner set-up (hardware and software) recording on a PC?


    Thanks
    Tony

  • Well, this is certainly not the best place for basic recording tutorials: you'll find a lot of information on the Net.
    The way you connected your Profiler can work, but unless you want to record in stereo (which I'd probably not do) you can use the Monitor Out for recording. So you can do without the Y-cable.


    OTOH, connecting your monitors to the Profiler won't allow you to hear back what you record. You should connect them to your soundcard. The drawback being, you'll have to rewire the connection or to switch your computer on when you want to play.
    A simple mixer would be of help, you connect the cabs to its output, and both the Profiler and the computer out to a couple of ins.
    Be sure to use ASIO audio drivers for your soundcard, otherwise you'll hear an annoying delay between what you play and what you hear back.


    As for software, there're zillions of options out there. Reaper is considered one of the best, and certainly the cheapest among the "bigs".


    Let us know :thumbup:

  • Thanks Ingolf and viabcroce. Is the audio interface (Ingolf) and simple mixer (viabcroce) the same thing? If not, could you point me to a mixer to start out with? Looking up Focusrite, I can see several different models that could work for me.


    Looks like Reaper would be a good piece of software for me (free trial and only $60 if I decide to keep). Thanks for this direction.


    Thanks
    Tony

  • The audio interface... interfaces your instruments with your computer. It is meant to recording stuff in the computer and to listening back to what you recorded.


    A mixer is a device able to receive several inputs, adjust their level, and send them "mixed" to a number of outputs (one stereo, in the simplest case).
    It's the big desk you see at concerts, and it sends the overall signal to the PA (cabs)
    This one is very inexpensive for example. Not a great sound of course, you get what you pay for. But it's practical, it's also got headphones Out.
    From that price on, you can buy whatever you can afford.


    With a quite versatile one (they are modular, so the inputs/outputs/signal routing they provide can be very simple or even very complex depending on the models) you can make interesting routings, conencting all of your sources,instruments and device to one mixer only and manage everything from there :)


    HTH

  • Thanks viabcroce. I think I'll try to get to Guitar Center in the next few days to get more in depth on specific products. Will probably try to start out with very basic hardware & software to get through the learning curve. If I survive that, and want to get more sophisticated, I'll replace/upgrade as necessary.


    Tony

  • First things first: what are you going to record with the interface? Just the Kemper? Vocals, bass? Full drumkit?


    For software I highly recommend Reaper, since it's a real DAW not a toy. A bit of a learning curve but recording is an ever ascending slope anyway. :D


    As for getting a mixer for home recording, I hardly see the point.

  • Sorry if I was not clear, the suggestion was related to being able to amplify both the computer and the Profiler with the same cabs w/o having to [switch the computer on every time he wants to play the Profiler] or [rewiring the monitors every time he switches between the computer and the Profiler as a sound source] or [rewiring the HPs every time he wants to switch between the computer and the Profiler as a sound source when he wants to be silent].
    The current Y-cable option Tony has adopted won't let him monitor the recorded material nor play along a recorded playback tune.


    To be clearer: you can just use a soundcard, but you'll have to switch the computer on every time you play the Profiler, or to disconnet the cabs from the computer and connect them to the Profiler (and the other way round) when you switch sources.
    I'm not a great fan of rewiring, moving stuff etc. I like my stuff to be always ready and on/in line :) YMMV tho, for example because your computer is always on.
    A small mixer is the solution I've adopted, and it's quite versatile: for less than 100 bucks, a mixer can always come in handy.


    There are of course other solutions, like rewiring things every time, using Y-cables (but not the way you've currently set it up) and the like, which I don't prefer (more noise, wearing out sockets and plugs, wasting time, messed up estate among others).


    Anyway, should you buy a mixer, keep in mind there're two factors which determine their price: sound quality and size. You can have a better-sounding mixer (meaning better preamps, less noise, better pots etc.) which will cost more than a cheaper one, even if the former hasn't got more channels or routing options. As I see it, better quality is worth it on the long route: if you are into music you will probably use a mixer for a lot of things in the years.


    Last but not least, if you do not plan to use mics, a line-level mixer will do the job as well. This is a mixer w/o mic preamps, so price being equal, components are of better quality.
    This is an option to consider if you're going to use your soundcard's mic inputs. Your computer being currently your only recording destination, this won't have you give up flexibility.
    OTOH, a standard mixer could be used in the future for different purposes :)


    HTH

  • Here's a quick guide:


    1) Get an Audio Interface. Preferably one that you can connect via S/PDIF coax - then you can connect the KPA to it digitally. It should have two line level balanced outputs to connect to your monitors. This can be a card that you plug into your PC's motherboard, or a USB or firewire device. I have an M-Audio Firewire Solo, and I bought a PCI firewire card with the M-Audio recommended Texas Instrument chipset to ensure maximum compatability.


    If you get an interface with optical S/PDIF only, you'll have to buy additional converters to connect to the coax S/PDIF on the KPA.


    If you plan on recording drums or multiple instruments simultaneously via direct input or microphone, you may want to look into a bigger interface with multiple mic/instrument-level inputs. But that's more $$$. If you are going to be just recording guitar and maybe vocals, you don't need all that. And if later you decide you want to mic drums, you could buy a mixer and mix all those mic's down to a single stereo signal.


    2) Use Reaper as DAW software. I find it does anything you'll need. Don't be afraid of it - start trying to do small projects - play with the keyboard to see how to move, zoom, change tracks, etc.


    3) If you've never used DAW software before, you should learn about VST plugins and VSTi's. VST plugins are .dll files that are designed to process an audio stream. They can be inserted as effects on individual tracks in your DAW. VSTi's are virtual instruments. They don't simply process an audio stream - they generate one. They can usually be controlled by MIDI. So you can get the drum MIDI from a guitar pro tab file, drop it into Reaper on your drum VSTi track, load a VSTi like EZDrummer or Superior Drummer (etc) and press play and you have drums. There are also VSTi's for synths. Native Instrument's Massive gets lots of praise. Omnisphere is also completely badass. Learn about using synths and samplers.


    4) Learn about all the controls you have per track - record arm, enable monitoring, mute, solo, changing input/output, pan, volume. There are more but those are the basics.


    5) Learn about busses and how to route audio internally.


    6) Learn to use the virtual mixer in your DAW software.


    7) If there's a basic setup you consistently use, set it all up without any actual music recorded, and save this as a project. Name it "Basic_Template" or something like that. Now everytime you want to start a new song, load up that project and start messing around. If you lay down something you like, Save As... and make a new project. That basic template can save you the pain of re-setting up your project everytime you want to record.


    8) Learn about timeline selection and looping. Looping is your friend.


    9) Learn how to "punch-in" recording, so you can record over mistakes.


    10) Learn how to cross-fade, to seamlessly mix pieces of audio together.


    11) Learn how to select, cut (as in split, not cut like copy/paste), move, trim, delete, and change the volume level of audio tracks.


    12) Learn about automation, which is useful for anything from simple volume swells to insane synth effects.


    13) Learn about fixed tempo vs the tempo track, which can be used to automate the track's tempo, changing over time if desired.


    14) If you don't have some virtual drum track playing back to keep time, be sure to enable the click track in the DAW for a basic metronome. If you don't record in-time with the beat, anything you record will sound like $#@#$.


    15) Learn about Compressing and Limiting. Check your tracks for clipping. A brick-wall limiter can help prevent sharp peaks from clipping.


    16) Learn how to bounce. This is useful for creating your final stereo output, as well as mixing down several tracks with effects. The DAW has to process any assigned effects or virtual instruments and automation in real time, which can overload the processor and cause stuttering, etc. You can bounce the more CPU intensive tracks into a new audio track. Then all the effects are "baked-in" - the new audio track doesn't need any effects - it's just playing back the audio. You can't change the effects on the bounced track, but it saves you enough CPU to lay down more tracks.


    17)...I could go on forever... making virtual drums sound "human", creating synth sounds, using samplers, interesting plug-ins, MIDI controllers, how to pan guitar tracks, how to mix all the instruments...


    Keep trying. The more you try, the more you learn and the quicker you operate. If you get stuck, ask us about the specific issues you're hitting.

  • Yes, complete summary and good advice in general.
    I'd like to add though: start doing basic recordings first.
    (Not too many instruments).
    Learn to operate your DAW.


    Go to http://www.therecordingrevolution.com and go through the tutorials.
    Very useful and practical information there.

  • Many thanks to everyone that has replied. Some really good info and many,many things for me to think about before I head down this path. To clarify, I would only be recording for my personal enjoyment. I would only be recording my guitar over backing tracks or mp3s. I'd like to, at some time, be able to add drums (electronically) so I could record something from the ground up. Since I'm only planning on one guitar input (plus backing tracks or mp3s) does the mixer still add value for me versus just an audio interface.


    I think part of my near term problem will be with my older computer. The 1/8" into the sound card and USB seem to be the only way to interface. It doesn't make sense for me to buy a better sound card for this old PC. So that may leave USB as the best way to get from the audio interface/mixer into the computer. (Edit: Looking on the web at different hardware options, looks like Vista OS will really be a limiter. Most seem to only support WIN 7 & 8.)


    Another noobie question: I assume SPDIF out of the Kemper is mono and not stereo. True? (Edit: Reading on web it looks like each interface can handle 2 channels ---> Stereo?)


    Again, thanks to everyone (especially the summary from meambobbo) that has provided input. Hopefully, this thread will help other beginners as well.


    Tony

  • The mixer, as I wrote twice, would serve the purpose of not having to rewire the cabs every time you want to use your Profiler and your PC independently. Just that. If this is not a need for you, don't buy it for now :) If it is, you'll need one, or a parallel connection which I'd avoid for the aforementioned reasons.
    Also, a mixer won't substitute the audio card anyway, unless it's an audio card itself.


    As for the audio card connection, you can use an USB one (which you'll be able to use with a newer PC as well), but be sure your PC has got USB 2.
    If the PC has got a free slot you might want to buy an inexpensive card with firewire or USB 3 sockets for accommodating newer audio cards.
    My audio interface is connected through a PCI card, which ensures a very good and consistent throughput.

  • Keep trying. The more you try, the more you learn and the quicker you operate. If you get stuck, ask us about the specific issues you're hitting.


    17)...I could go on forever... making virtual drums sound "human", creating synth sounds, using samplers, interesting plug-ins, MIDI controllers, how to pan guitar tracks, how to mix all the instruments...


    16) Learn how to bounce. This is useful for creating your final stereo output, as well as mixing down several tracks with effects. The DAW has to process any assigned effects or virtual instruments and automation in real time, which can overload the processor and cause stuttering, etc. You can bounce the more CPU intensive tracks into a new audio track. Then all the effects are "baked-in" - the new audio track doesn't need any effects - it's just playing back the audio. You can't change the effects on the bounced track, but it saves you enough CPU to lay down more tracks.


    15) Learn about Compressing and Limiting. Check your tracks for clipping. A brick-wall limiter can help prevent sharp peaks from clipping.


    14) If you don't have some virtual drum track playing back to keep time, be sure to enable the click track in the DAW for a basic metronome. If you don't record in-time with the beat, anything you record will sound like $#@#$.


    13) Learn about fixed tempo vs the tempo track, which can be used to automate the track's tempo, changing over time if desired.


    12) Learn about automation, which is useful for anything from simple volume swells to insane synth effects.


    11) Learn how to select, cut (as in split, not cut like copy/paste), move, trim, delete, and change the volume level of audio tracks.


    10) Learn how to cross-fade, to seamlessly mix pieces of audio together.


    9) Learn how to "punch-in" recording, so you can record over mistakes.


    Learn about timeline selection and looping. Looping is your friend.


    7) If there's a basic setup you consistently use, set it all up without any actual music recorded, and save this as a project. Name it "Basic_Template" or something like that. Now everytime you want to start a new song, load up that project and start messing around. If you lay down something you like, Save As... and make a new project. That basic template can save you the pain of re-setting up your project everytime you want to record.


    6) Learn to use the virtual mixer in your DAW software.


    5) Learn about busses and how to route audio internally.


    4) Learn about all the controls you have per track - record arm, enable monitoring, mute, solo, changing input/output, pan, volume. There are more but those are the basics.


    3) If you've never used DAW software before, you should learn about VST plugins and VSTi's. VST plugins are .dll files that are designed to process an audio stream. They can be inserted as effects on individual tracks in your DAW. VSTi's are virtual instruments. They don't simply process an audio stream - they generate one. They can usually be controlled by MIDI. So you can get the drum MIDI from a guitar pro tab file, drop it into Reaper on your drum VSTi track, load a VSTi like EZDrummer or Superior Drummer (etc) and press play and you have drums. There are also VSTi's for synths. Native Instrument's Massive gets lots of praise. Omnisphere is also completely badass. Learn about using synths and samplers.


    2) Use Reaper as DAW software. I find it does anything you'll need. Don't be afraid of it - start trying to do small projects - play with the keyboard to see how to move, zoom, change tracks, etc.


    If you plan on recording drums or multiple instruments simultaneously via direct input or microphone, you may want to look into a bigger interface with multiple mic/instrument-level inputs. But that's more $$$. If you are going to be just recording guitar and maybe vocals, you don't need all that. And if later you decide you want to mic drums, you could buy a mixer and mix all those mic's down to a single stereo signal.


    If you get an interface with optical S/PDIF only, you'll have to buy additional converters to connect to the coax S/PDIF on the KPA.


    1) Get an Audio Interface. Preferably one that you can connect via S/PDIF coax - then you can connect the KPA to it digitally. It should have two line level balanced outputs to connect to your monitors. This can be a card that you plug into your PC's motherboard, or a USB or firewire device. I have an M-Audio Firewire Solo, and I bought a PCI firewire card with the M-Audio recommended Texas Instrument chipset to ensure maximum compatability.


    Here's a quick guide:

    Great post.


  • I know this is all daunting at first. I have been playing guitar for 30 years but got into digital stuff only a year and a half ago. It was overwhelming. I can't believe how much I've learned in a short period of time. It's so awesome. The biggest improvement though in my recording was finding the KPA - after going through Guitar Rig, Axe FX II etc etc etc. So - your most of the way there ;) The next steps from where you are are simple - get an interface that connects via USB. We all have one. Focusright Saffire is a good one, or, I have Komplete Audio 6 - it works perfectly. Make sure it has SPDIF. That is how you will want to record (in my opinion). Get Reaper (everyone recommends it). I have Studio One - that works great as well. You are then good to go. All the other stuff can come later.


    You sound like your very analytical - like me. So my advice looking back is - one step at a time. So - go buy interface, get free trial version of Reaper or Studio One or whatever - get it working - go from there.

  • The mixer, as I wrote twice, would serve the purpose of not having to rewire the cabs every time you want to use your Profiler and your PC independently. Just that. If this is not a need for you, don't buy it for now :) If it is, you'll need one, or a parallel connection which I'd avoid for the aforementioned reasons.
    Also, a mixer won't substitute the audio card anyway, unless it's an audio card itself.


    As for the audio card connection, you can use an USB one (which you'll be able to use with a newer PC as well), but be sure your PC has got USB 2.
    If the PC has got a free slot you might want to buy an inexpensive card with firewire or USB 3 sockets for accommodating newer audio cards.
    My audio interface is connected through a PCI card, which ensures a very good and consistent throughput.


    Sure, I also din't mean to sound rude if that was the case for you.
    Just wanted to point out for the poster that he will not need it for his situation.


    DAW - Monitor - Interface - Mic - There you go. But that's already been stated couple of times here ;)

  • No offence taken at all! But, its current setup doesn't allow him to playback from the PC. If he connects the monitors to the DAW/soundcard, he'll be obliged to keep the PC on whenever he wants to just use the Profiler alone. So I would not say he doesn't actually need a mixer. Am I missing something? ?( :)