Midi-Control the Kemper (advanced?)

    Hey there ;)


    Since a few months I'm using the kemper in livesituations. I'm using Ableton Live 8/9 for controlling performance mode and all "wah"-FX (FX which you can program if you automate the CC for the wah-pedal)


    Since weeks I'm searching for a tutorial on how to control single knobs on the kemper via midi. I've read a lot about NRPN, RPN, MSB and all that stuff. Until that point I thought I'm familiar with MIDI, but now I know I'm not :/ I don't get the point for NRPN...


    I know that some guy created an editor as a standalone win application that is capable of sending the right midi-information to control almost 90 % of the kemper. I've already tested the beta version, but somehow I think he won't finish this project. link: http://www.evergladesaudio.com/en/ (there's also a post in the forum by this guy)


    My question here: Is Ableton able ( lol ) to produce the recommended midi signals for controlling the kemper (single FX slot knobs, and, and ...). Does somebody know a good tutorial for me?


    Thanks a lot ;)

    give a little more time and someone will join your enquire...........this forum is outstanding for being everybody for help to the Others


    mic

    "...why being satisfied with an amp, as great as it can be, while you can have them all?" michael mellner


    "Rock in Ecclesia" - new album on iTunes or Google music

    I've built my own MIDI floorboard, which is rather advanced in its MIDI implementation - so if you have specific questions, i might be able to help.
    Don't know anything about Ableton, though - so i can tell you which bits go where and maybe format them into CC messages (NRPN, if i remember correctly, is just four of those) but you'd have to know how to make Ableton send them.


    I will say, however, that Kemper's MIDI documentation is top-notch and you should keep reading it until you get the hang of it.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    Huge thanks for your replies!


    michaelmellner
    Sorry for my misleading second post. It wasn't meant to annoy someone. Instead it was a real question i would like to add to this thread :)


    I've read both Manuals from the KPA. The smaller and the bigger one (with the huge amount of midistuff explained in it) Therefore I know what the KPA can do. And even what information it needs to work. But I still don't know how I can say my DAW (I think it's irrelevant which one as long as it can send midi) to send these Bits to my Kemper. In fact I don't know what to write into my midi clip.


    I think a simple example would help me a lot. Let's think I would like to control my "drive" on a distortion pedal on STOMP A with my DAW. As far as I know, there are no CC's programmed for this. The KPA Manual tells me the address of the knob. But I did not figured out yet the right composite of midi commands.


    Hopefully someone could help me, I feel really stupid for not understanding how this works. Thank you ;)

    If you have a MIDI clip and can 'launch' the bytes once you're done writing them, i can give you an example.
    Are you familiar with hexadecimal? Otherwise, my explanation might be somewhat confusing.


    You'll be working with SysEx, so the first byte is always F0.
    Then come the identification process - so 00 , 20 , 33 , 02 , 7F. This means that you're sending an omni message to the Kemper profiler, which is what you want to do.
    So far we have {F0 00 20 33 02 7F}, or depending on your midi clip, {0xf0 0x00 0x20 0x33 0x02 0x7f}. This is always true.
    Now comes the fun part.


    You want a single parameter change, so the next byte is 01 or 0x01.
    Then 0x00 because of reasons.
    Then the NRPN controller and value.
    The last byte is always F7 as per SysEx specs.


    Now, the controller for 'drive' is in Amplifier -> Gain - so according to the table, that's 10 -> 4, but to disorient the unworthy, Timo saw fit to write that table in decimal - so 10 is really 0x0A and the controller address for Amplifier -> Gain is {0x0A, 0x04}.
    If your MIDI clip can send decimal, you can do {0xf0 0x00 0x20 0x33 0x02 0x7f 0x01 0x00 10 4 0 0 0xf7} -
    so the first 6 bytes are for identification, then you have a single parameter change, a 0 that will always be there, a 10 for amplifier and a 4 for gain, decimal, then two value bytes where i set gain to 0 and an 0xf7 to end the SysEx message.
    If you can't send decimal, that same message will look like {0xf0 0x00 0x20 0x33 0x02 0x7f 0x01 0x00 0x0A 0x04 0x00 0x00 0xf7}.


    Instead of 0 0, you can set a different value.
    I remember it not being as simple as it could be (between 0 0 and 0xff 0xff) but i might be mixing it up.


    My full message for setting Delay on, for reference, is:
    {0xF0,0x00,0x20,0x33,0x02,0x7F,0x01,0x00,74,13,1,0,0xF7}
    In full hex, this will be {0xF0,0x00,0x20,0x33,0x02,0x7F,0x01,0x00,0x4A,0x0D,0x01,0x00,0xF7}


    Hope it helps.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    Edited once, last by Quitty ().

    Huge thanks for your brainwork on this Quitty. Read it multiple times, still quite confusing :) I think my problem here starts earlier in the process. Where do I put these messages in my MIDI clip? Just for understanding: Is this a combination of different midinotes? or is this a text line which I have to "encode/code" by myself an put it in a "Sysex text window" inside my MIDI clip?


    Is it possible for you to take me a screenshot that shows how this message has to be set up in a DAW (unimportant which one, I think I can transfer the process, at least I hope so ;) ) (FYI: I'm familiar with Ableton, Cubase, FL Studio, Studio One and a bit Logic and Protools)


    Thank you :)

    Hey Kemper Folks :)


    I jump on this thread because I don't want to open a new one.


    I tried to get some MIDI implementations working but I can't get the Kemper react to SysEx or NRPM CCs. Normal Control Changes like switching On/Off stomps and fx are working.


    What I've done for testing was, to connect the Kemper with a simple USB->MIDI Interface and start MIDI-OX under Win7. I got the Active Sensing message and the kemper recieves and reacts to CCs. But whatever I've tried, SysEx messages are not recognized. Nothing happens. I've tried the simple example messages from the "midi Parameter documentation" or from this thread. I can see, that the LED on my USB->MIDI is flashing when I hit "send".


    I would be so thankful if someone could give me a hint what I'm doing wrong.


    Cheers and now I test some new profiles to get my head cleaned up. ;)

    I've done quite a bit of work with the sysex commands from Windows, as well as testing responses using midi-ox. Can you give us an example of one of the sysex string you are sending that's not working?



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

    Quote from Zotec

    Huge thanks for your brainwork on this Quitty. Read it multiple times, still quite confusing :) I think my problem here starts earlier in the process. Where do I put these messages in my MIDI clip? Just for understanding: Is this a combination of different midinotes? or is this a text line which I have to "encode/code" by myself an put it in a "Sysex text window" inside my MIDI clip?


    Is it possible for you to take me a screenshot that shows how this message has to be set up in a DAW (unimportant which one, I think I can transfer the process, at least I hope so ;) ) (FYI: I'm familiar with Ableton, Cubase, FL Studio, Studio One and a bit Logic and Protools)


    Thank you :)


    Now i see the issue.


    SysEx is just a specific protocol for communication - same as saying 'hi' when you meet someone, SysEx says '240' - which in hexadecimal would be 'F0'.
    I don't know where the MIDI clip is or if it is at all possible without external apps or VST. Try googling for syncing SysEx messages to tempo track.


    SysEx is a string of bytes. Some of them are given in hexadecimal (like the SysEx opening/closing byte or the identification process) and some are given in decimal or even binary and you might have to convert them.
    You don't encode or decode, just compose the SysEx message as per the rules - 0xf0 first, 0xf7 last etc - and send it. It's not sent as text, it's sent as a series of very quick pulses, sort of like morse code.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    Quote from Navar

    What I've done for testing was, to connect the Kemper with a simple USB->MIDI Interface and start MIDI-OX under Win7. I got the Active Sensing message and the kemper recieves and reacts to CCs. But whatever I've tried, SysEx messages are not recognized. Nothing happens. I've tried the simple example messages from the "midi Parameter documentation" or from this thread. I can see, that the LED on my USB->MIDI is flashing when I hit "send".


    I would be so thankful if someone could give me a hint what I'm doing wrong.

    In the SysEx window of MidiOx, write this:
    0xF0,0x00,0x20,0x33,0x02,0x7F,0x01,0x00,0x4A,0x0D,0x01,0x00,0xF7


    If this doesn't work, try replacing the commas with spaces.
    If this doesn't work, try ditching the '0x' at the start of each byte.


    This will turn the delay slot on.
    Also, make sure the Kemper's MIDI channel is set to 'omni' (under 'system', i think).

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    Thank you very much for your replies and your time to help me out of this :)


    jifgriff: I've tried the string Quitty wrote and some else composed from the documentation.


    0xF0,0x00,0x20,0x33,0x02,0x7F,0x01,0x00,0x4A,0x0D,0x01,0x00,0xF7


    This is the output from the MidiOx Output Monitor


    000DBDD2 MOX 5 F0 Buffer: 13 Bytes System Exclusive
    SYSX: F0 00 20 33 02 7F 01 00 4A 0D 01 00 F7


    Nothing happens on Kemper Side, Delay doesn't change, no SysEx Reply


    Here is another SysEx Command I've tried for requesting the actual Delay Volume:
    F0 00 20 33 02 7F 41 00 4A 04 F7


    What I've tried:
    - Replacing the commas, ditching the 0x
    - Playing around with the buffer delay values in the SysExView Settings
    - Tried some simple "SingleParameterRequests" which should be the easiest commands.


    - "The Midi Global Channel" parameter on system page 6 is set to omni.
    - I've tried FW 2.4.1 beta , 2.4.0 alpha and 2.3.3. release


    I'm still helpless and don't know what I could try else and where I made something wrong. I'm close to try a factory reset on the Kemper and check if something configured wrong there but I don't believe that there's the problem. The problem sits mostly in front of the screen. ;)


    That's really weird.


    Give me a couple of minutes, i'll get you a screenshot of what worked on my MidiOx.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    So.


    This just worked. If it doesn't work for you, there's something wrong with either your settings or your connections.
    [Blocked Image: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--J3Erqes5js/U3-xfVnge0I/AAAAAAAACLw/3M9x9-W7qN4/s659/Untitled.jpg]


    Sorry if i'm stating the obvious here but:


    -Connect your MIDI out to your Kemper's MIDI in.
    -Click 'select MIDI devices to open' on MidiOx's toolbar and set it to use your connected MIDI device.
    -Open the SysEx window, input the string from my previous post, right click and hit 'send SysEx'.


    Delay just lit up for me.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    Thank you for the screenshot, it look similar to mine :)


    I've checked the connections and they seem to work because of
    - I recieve the active sensing message
    - I can send simple CCs for the basic toggle options
    - On Kemper startup I recieve a SysEx Message which only contains F0F7


    So, perhaps there is something wrong with this USB->MIDI Interface? Perhaps I can grab some standard cables and try to connect it through my RME.


    Here is a screenshot on how it looks like on my side. Everything seems to be ok...


    [Blocked Image: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12485269/midiox_screen.png]


    Thanx a lot for your time on this :)

    This looks like it should work, so let's try being creative.


    -make sure you haven't connected the MIDI to the THRU on the Profiler. Stupid, i know, but let's make sure.
    -Turn the delay on in one of he profiles and send
    0xF0,0x00,0x20,0x33,0x02,0x7F,0x01,0x00,0x4A,0x0D,0x00,0x00,0xF7
    to turn it off.
    -If you're using the same cheapo usb2MIDI interface i'm using, there are two outputs identified. Try the other one.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    I've connected MIDI Out USB2MIDI -> MIDI In Kemper and MIDI In USB2MIDI MIDI Out Kemper, I'm sure the connection itself works because I can switch things on and of by CCs :) I also tried other connection combinations to make sure this is correct...


    I've tried both MIDI Outs several times in different combinations but no SysEx is recognized.


    I've tried to do a MIDI mapping reset in the Kemper by booting it with pressed "Quick" button like it was described here: http://www.soundside.de/support/KPARecovery.htm


    Nothing changes... perhaps I should try the factory reset thing? ...

    What usb to midi adaptor have you got, if it's one of the cheap ebay ones it won't work, for some reason they do not successfully transmit sysex, I spent weeks trying. Then bought a midiman usb to midi and it worked straight away.
    From what I've read the cheap ones don't conform to midi specs, certainly there is no opto isolation.