Tipps for Profiling

  • Is there a more detailled guideline (than in the manual) available for making best profiles? I have a lot of open questions which are not dealt with in the manual.


    F.e.: Is it better to profile with two mikes? one in front of the speaker one in the room?


    Which criteria are most important to preselect a similar profile as reference for the Profiling process? (Amp-Type, Gain-Level, Speaker-Type, Fx-types ??)


    Should I profile at the same volume level, where I intend to use the profile later?


    Is it possible to profile my specific Guitar-Box and use it as a cab-Preset ?


    Is it possible to profile specific FX-Boxes (Pearl Overdrive, TC-Phaser) ?



    Maybe it is possible to share tipps and tricks for profiling as a new specific category in the Kemper-Forum ?

  • There can never be a tutorial for mic placement, ears and recording in general - beauty is in the eye of the beholder. its something experience will tell you whats good or not. - best thing to do is try, test, and re-try until you finally find what you are looking for.


    So try with just one mic, change positions until your comfortable..generally speaking :-


    -Center of speaker will give you detail, but will also sound harsh
    -Offcenter, will loose some detail but will shift the highs so its rounded
    -Cone, will sound darker more lower mids and bass response
    -Edge, will loose all detail and carry 95% bass/Lower mids


    Center/Offcenter is better for single mic, to find the perfect balance between Highend/Mids and lower mids/bass, your looking for a rounded tone, so move and position profile, rince and repeat.


    Kemper cannot deal with room mics as the CAB element gets truncated early, so choose close mic techniques, up-to about an inch away, it does not sound like much, but a MM can alter the sound in a big way!


    Gain staging is also very important, match unity gain where possible


    IF you want to use 2 mics then use one (brighter dynamic perhaps~) to give the detail, and the other to supply the lack of.. i.e place on Edge or similar, Mic pre's are important for gain staging and coloration too. but do check your mics first to make sure they have the right SPL level before putting it in from of a live cab! and of course Phase alignment check too.


    But really that's all there is to offer, your first handful of profiles might not be pleasing, but it sure will give you a lot more ammunition of where to improve the next time round.


    With that.. wish you luck.

  • Hurricane, I have answers to some of your questions.
    1) Is it better to profile with two mikes: There are no fixed rules. The idea is to capture the sound of the amp as accurately as possible, but a trend nowadays has been to capture other aspects of the studio signal chain as well to give mix ready sounds.
    2) You should ignore FX, or turn them off completely when trying to preselect a similar profile. But this has minimal impact on the profiling process I suspect, since you also have the option of selecting whether you're profiling a "clean" or "dirty" amp later on. You can do a simple test yourself to check whether there's a difference.
    3) With most tube amplifiers, you're going to have to get the power amp section cooking as well to achieve the most "desirable" tones, but some people have also hooked up dummy loads and recorded DI profiles. The profiler is supposed to "normalise" profiles, but I've found that profiling methods and subsequent tweaking do have a big impact on the eventual rig volume in dB terms.
    4) Not too sure about this. I think your mileage may vary, though Till has put together some fantastic cabinets.
    5) No.

  • Profiling an amp is about the same as recording an amp.


    If you know how to get a good recorded sound from your amp - then you know all.


    Yes, as Andy mentioned you will have no luck with two mics (one close and the other one far in the room) - because of the way the KPA works - but everything else works just fine.


    In case you use one mic only - all you need is this mic and a cable - connect it directly into the KPA and you can start profiling.


    For ribbon mics I would recommend a dedicated mic pre amp - for condenser mics you must use an external mic pre amp (with phantom power).

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  • Thanks a lot for some great recommendations especially for miking. I will give my profile-ambitions further trials (as I now think with one mike at different postitions) .


    Would you also recommend to make different profiles for clean, crunch and distorted sounds and each profile at different volume levels of the reference amp?


    My profiles differ a lot live on stage , when using different levels, (I use the powered KPA with a 2x12" cabinet for stage monitoring). As I understood, the once made profile ist most natural sounding, when using it later in the same (or similar) loudness where I made the profile. So, should I profile different volumes of the reference amp if I want to use profiles later on large stages and small club-gigs? Or is it better to use only one profile and dial in different EQ-settings or/and different OUTPUT-Settings for the monitor-output when playing louder?


    Should I -at the beginning of the profiling-process- put the settings for INPUT and OUTPUT (on the KPA) to a neutral position (and if so, what should I dial in)?


    The guitar sound of the P.A. (signal of main output with similar cab-sim) is also completely different - much more bright/thin - compared to my stage sound. should I try to change the main-output-EQ just until it sounds similar ?


    Sorry for my questions, but I have huge problems using my powered-KPA live. The sounds sometimes sound too muddy (listen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFO-xjxUP1g) sometimes too thin. And the distortion sometimes becomes harsh when cranking the master volume (f.e. on larger stages). For recording I couldn't imagine a better solution but for live there is much improvement necessary I think. Penny for my thouhts

  • Sorry for my questions, but I have huge problems using my powered-KPA live. The sounds sometimes sound too muddy (listen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFO-xjxUP1g) sometimes too thin. And the distortion sometimes becomes harsh when cranking the master volume (f.e. on larger stages). For recording I couldn't imagine a better solution but for live there is much improvement necessary I think. Penny for my thouhts


    Sorry, but many pros of the highest caliber are using the Profiler live and are extremely happy, so this sounds like user error to me.


    If you 'crank the master' you are saturating the outputs of the Profiler and even though they are designed to handle even high levels really well and utilize soft-saturation, there is a point when all fail-safes will give up and the output will clip. This is the harsh distortion you're referring to.
    are you using the powered version?

  • Sorry, but many pros of the highest caliber are using the Profiler live and are extremely happy, so this sounds like user error to me.


    If you 'crank the master' you are saturating the outputs of the Profiler and even though they are designed to handle even high levels really well and utilize soft-saturation, there is a point when all fail-safes will give up and the output will clip. This is the harsh distortion you're referring to.
    are you using the powered version?


    Of course, I think, I'm doing wrong. That's why I ask for help. :P


    Yes, I'm using the Powered-KPA with a 2x12" Mojo-Box with 2 Celestion G12H30 Heritage.


    I profiled my Two Rock Custom Signature Reverb II with the same Box, clean and with a Providence Stampede Overdrive for Crunch sounds and with a Zendrive for Lead-Sounds. I profiled at rather high level with two mics one SM57( direct sound) and a AKG -Kondensator (room sound), maybe that's where I caused my problems.

  • I see three problems:


    a) Profiling a guitar amp - and then later playing the profile via the same guitar cabinet - will not work.
    Either profile without any cabinet or play the profile via FRFR


    b) The Zendrive (like other overdrive pedals) does not profile well


    c) KPA can not handle two mics (close and far) - use one mic or two but both close or far.

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  • Hey Armin,


    Would like to know your reasons for A?
    I get b and c.


    Why wouldn't that work?
    Many people use a normal guitar cab to play live, myself included.


    So If I wanted to profile my amp with my Cabinet and then later play my new profile in my Kemper though the same cabinet.
    I can't see why that wont work.


    Cheers,


    Gezza.

  • It might work, if you try switching the cabinet off - otherwise, you are listening to your amp and cabinet, miced up, through your cabinet again (as opposed to listening to your miced up amp and cabinet through a full range monitor or headphones).


    When I play the profiles on stage through the same box, I use the monitor output with "cab-off". I think the cab-off-option is determined to be used in this way !!??

  • The Kemper does not completely isolate and separate the sound of the amp from the sound of the cabinet when you create a profile. So, turning off the cabinet may not completely remove the sound of it. A profile made without a cabinet (with the amp connected to a "load box") might give you better results with a guitar cabinet.


    Cab Changes effect tone with Cab off

  • Might be a silly question, but is your cabinet on the floor when you play live? Have you tried putting it on a stand or couple of beer crates or something? If the PA is sounding bright and toppy compared to your cab on stage, it could just be that you're listening to the cab off-axis, which will of course attenuate the highs and high mids. Try getting it closer to your ear height and adjusting the tone in the output section, then compare that with the sound coming out of the PA.


    And to whoever said that you can't profile an amp through a cab, then play through the same cab : wrong! Works a treat for me with the "cab off" in the monitor output section. Which gives me a thought; to the OP, you're sure you haven't globally turned the cabs off, right?


    Cheers,
    Sam