Low latency monitoring for (home) recording

    Problem: The preferred connection for recording is via S/PDIF to stay in the digital domain. Many affordable sound cards don't provide zero/low latency hardware monitoring for S/PDIF inputs. The signal would have to be routed and monitored via DAW which inevitably adds annoying latency.


    Solution: A simple solution without using external mixers is the headphone or main output of the Kemper for monitoring. These outputs provide the Kemper's signal without additional latency. Adding the playback signal to the headphone/main out can be done via Auxiliary input.
    Added bonus: While recording the guitar dry (output source "Stack" or "Git / Stack") post amp effects could still be added to the monitor signal (e.g. modulation effects, delay, reverb, Headphone Space). This allows for comfortable guitar sound in the monitor while keeping all options for mixing mod and space effects later.
    Note: The Auxiliary input will not work while using the Hardware Effects Loop in your rig.


    The signal chain:
    Kemper <-> Soundcard
    S/PDIF Out -> S/PDIF in (for recording)
    S/PDIF In <- S/PDIF out (for re-amping only)
    Alternative Input <- monitor out R (playback )
    Return Input <- monitor out L (playback)


    DAW settings:
    Route the monitor/playback signal to the audio out ports connected with Kemper.


    Kemper settings:
    Use Auxiliary input control in the output section to adjust the level of the monitor/playback signal.


    Future improvements: Using 'S/PDIF In' on the Kemper for the playback signal is currently not supported. Maybe this could be added in a future firmware update. The advantage would be less cables and no analogue connections between Kemper and DAW.

    Edited 2 times, last by trebie ().

    don't know if I quite get this.. are you referring to "playback" as monitoring tracks from the daw through the (kpa alt/return ins) while recording?


    Also, what's the issue with analog connections between the kpa and the daw?

    Gettin' funky up in here..

    Yes, this is about monitoring tracks from the DAW through the KPA while recording.


    The analogue outs of the KPA could be used for recording of course. The disadvantage of that would be loss of quality due to additional D/A and A/D conversion. Using S/PDIF the digital signal could be recorded unmodified.

    Quote from trebie

    Problem: The preferred connection for recording is via S/PDIF to stay in the digital domain. Many affordable sound cards don't provide zero/low latency hardware monitoring for S/PDIF inputs. The signal would have to be routed and monitored via DAW which inevitably adds annoying latency.


    I guess I should consider myself lucky since I record from Kemper to Focusrite Sapphire to Logic Pro X with no latency.

    yeah.. I monitor inputs direct through the main mixer instead of round trip through the computer and back.. so I don't have latency issues... everything is real time. plus I'm able to record all tracks from the kpa, stereo analogs and dual mono tracks from the s/pdifs.... along with the rest of the band when applicable..


    sure the is a perceivable loss of quality between analog a/d d/a conversions but honestly, I can't hear a difference between the analog track quality and a s/pdif quality... they're pretty equal.. there's some nice pre's in that KPA!

    Gettin' funky up in here..

    The procedure explained above is equivalent to using an external monitor mixer. You just don't need the external mixer while recording a single guitar.
    While recording the guitar dry (output source "Stack" or "Git / Stack") post amp effects could still be added to the monitor signal in the KPA (e.g. modulation effects, delay, reverb, Headphone Space). This allows for comfortable guitar sound in the monitor while keeping all options for mixing mod and space effects later.

    There's a much bigger problem and that is that no 'aux' routing is routed to the s/pdif, no matter the setting.


    I'd have liked put stuff out - analogue or digital - from my computer or even a mobile player, monitor the kemper output and use the aux-in of the kemper to control their level - but alas.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    Sorry if it sounds a bit off topic, but I think using decent audio interface and analogue outs will give you better quality and avoid latency problem by hardware monitoring. S/PDIF in Kemper work with 44.1 KHz, which in my opinion is not serious approach to recording. Non of sound engineers I now uses that low quality.

    Quote from Konstantin

    Sorry if it sounds a bit off topic, but I think using decent audio interface and analogue outs will give you better quality and avoid latency problem by hardware monitoring. S/PDIF in Kemper work with 44.1 KHz, which in my opinion is not serious approach to recording. Non of sound engineers I now uses that low quality.

    Well, being an El.Eng i beg to differ.
    There's a lot of misinformation about what sample rate means in audio. I think, if you studied into it, you'd see 48Khz is absolutely and completely redundant unless you're playing massively with speed of recorded tracks.

    "But dignity is difficult to maintain
    stamina requires constant upkeep
    repetition is boring
    and you pay for grace."

    Quote from Konstantin

    Sorry if it sounds a bit off topic, but I think using decent audio interface and analogue outs will give you better quality and avoid latency problem by hardware monitoring. S/PDIF in Kemper work with 44.1 KHz, which in my opinion is not serious approach to recording. Non of sound engineers I now uses that low quality.


    As an amateur musician (and professional video editor) 44.1 works just fine for me. I like to keep things digital with SPDIF :)

    Quote from Michael_dk

    Yeah, 44.1 is fine (unless you're doing time stretching, as someone mentioned). DAWs use oversampling as well when processing - all modern ones, I think. Or maybe it's the plugins. And now I've demonstrated the level of my understanding quite nicely, I think. HOWEVER; I do know professional engineers who record at 44.1.


    I can even do time stretching till the cows come home with e.g. Ableton Live in 44.1.
    This is no problem.
    Try it yourself.

    Quote from Ingolf

    Ableton Live


    Man, Ingolf... I've been thinking about moving to Ableton Live from Cubase 7.5... I love Cubase but I think Ableton allowed you to do interactive looping that I'm just not getting out of Cubase.. Do you use this feature? How do you like it??

    Gettin' funky up in here..

    Quote from Konstantin

    It is an issue if you apply some editing, effects and so on.


    man... I just don't feel it.. I do all kinds of stuff and have never really felt an issue.. but I did when I had to resample using 48 and higher.. it was just extra steps that I didn't need to use since I mainly produce CD's and web stuff.. but to each their own... there's no one way that fits all.. 8)

    Gettin' funky up in here..

    Quote from DukeOURL

    Man, Ingolf... I've been thinking about moving to Ableton Live from Cubase 7.5... I love Cubase but I think Ableton allowed you to do interactive looping that I'm just not getting out of Cubase.. Do you use this feature? How do you like it??


    Different horses for different courses.
    Ableton is unbeatable for creation, looping, playing around with musical phrases.
    When it comes to tracking it can't compete with Cubase or, in my case Logic.
    So actually I use both for different tasks.