Question for the recording engineers out there

Try to use as little manipulation as you can. That said, some tricks:

-Hi-pass at ~200Hz to make room for the kick and bass.
-Cut at ~600-800Hz to make room for the vocals.
-Maybe lo-pass at ~7kHz, but this is one area that I think varies a lot depending on what else is going on in the mix.

If you have time:

http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html

Otherwise just trust your ears. And don't forget that a lot of work went into capturing the profiles in the 1st place.

+1 to Ben's EQ tips.

Short answer for a "live" sounding mix: Use a reverb that sounds like the guitars are in the same room as the drums.

Longer answer:

For hair metal, a lot of the ambiance can come from using delay (this works really well live, too) - try a tap tempo 1/16th or 1/8th note, single repeat. The delay may have to be almost as loud as the amp tone to be heard in the full mix. If reverb was that loud, all by itself, it could make the guitar sound "mushy", but delay just makes it sound "more". Removing some high end from the delay can make it a little more subtle.

If a delay is too much for the song, just use reverb for a more subtle kind of ambiance. If just delay is not enough, use both reverb and delay.

A pre-delay on the reverb helps keep the reverb from washing out the guitar. Depending on tempo, a pre-delay of 1/16, 1/8, or 1/4 may work best. In a mix context, the type of reverb is less important than the tone and size of it. Ben's EQ tips apply here, too. The size/length of the reverb will depend on the song, and part being played - unless it is a special effect big reverb, it will typically be similar in size to the drums (see, my short answer was all you really needed!)

It's pretty difficult to give advice without knowing the arrangement, number of instruments, vocalists, range of the voice, how fast or slow, how busy or sparse, how the tone of the kick and the bass are in relation to each other, etc etc... These are all things that, among many, many other factors, determine how you would end up EQing, compressing, adding space (verbs and delays) and whatever else when mixing. So any advice will NOT work in all situations people have different "songs" in their heads when talking in generalities.
Generalising, EQ'ing is typically used to remove unwanted stuff from an track in solo (like woofiness, low-mid mud etc) and to shape a track to fit with all the other tracks. This is the part that is difficult to make decisions about until you start mixing (at least at my rank amateur level)

Paults: Your advice about delays and reverbs ("longer answer"), do you have mostly rhythm or lead guitar in mind? My take: delays and subtle reverb can add great thickness to a lead tone, but more often than not I'd stick to sparse treatment on rhythm guitars - possibly only a short slap delay in the center or opposite sides. Also, I'm thinking you don't always want the delay/reverb to be exactly audible (to the casual listener at least), but rather just add a sense of space and depth (same overall sense of space as the rest of the instruments, but probably "placed" differently, for example more upfront than the drums). Depending of course on the specific song.

Otherwise, great points, especially on pre-delay and EQing out the highs; also a low pass filter should be considered.

To the OP: What is behind your question?

+1 to Michael dk 's comments. His additional suggestions are true of mixing in general, and independent of genre.

I was thinking in terms of "hair metal", where the reverb and delay were more prominent than used in other styles (other than as a special effect). I didn't think to mention the benefits of panning. One popular sound back then for a guitar/bass/drums mix was dry guitar panned to one side, and the wet reverb/delay panned to the other side.

Paults: OK, cool - I didn't know that about the hair metal mixing style. I'm a genre idiot

(I should probably start listening to music again, now that I'm trying to learn how to mix...)

Quote from Deny

Thanks for the excellent replies guys, very appreciated

michael, truth is I am trying to refine my live sound without relying on the sound guy. In fact I want him to leave everything flat at the mixing board and add no extra effects, that's why I'm looking for a "recording ready" tone. Besides delivering a good tone to the audience, I want to be able to record from the house mix and get decent results.

@Ben/Burningyen, I was messing with the Studio EQ settings at the "X" slot with the high pass (low control in the EQ) set to 50 Hz and gain around -7 because someone mentioned in another thread that the knee in the low shelf EQ curve is very soft and was in fact getting some nice results.

The thing that bugs me about the general 800 Hz shaving recommendation is that I like that frequency range a *lot* for both rhythm and lead guitar tones, IMHO it's where "creaminess" lives (think the riff tone of "Waterloo Sunset" by Def Leppard). So I usually boost it instead of cutting it, is that wrong?

Also one of the things I'm the most curious about is how much of the high end you guys usually shave off and how do you do it without the tone losing bite and becoming liveless. I usually cut the highs at the amp tonestack by -1.0 to -1.5 and set the high shift in the cabinet section to -0.1.

Regarding reverb and delay I usually also shave cut a *lot* of the highs but keep the mix fairly high (~ 50% for reverb, ~ 42% for delay).

Any other tips for delivering a "perfect ready to record" tone to the house mixing board?

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Cool.

Keep in mind when reading this that I have zero live experience, so I'm talking from the perspective of one who is learning audio engineering on my own and as a hobby.

I would probably not expect the Front of House engineer to leave everything flat at the mixing board Depending on the venue, the size of the audience etc, the "necessary" adjustments could be quite different, so you would probably not be able to find a setting that works always. That said, I'm sure most FoH engineers would thank you for having a good tone right off the bat! But don't dismiss their role either, they are there to make the music sound the best it can (unless they suck, of course :-)).

Recording from the board also makes sense. I would consider adding a mobile setup for recording directly from the KPA as well, if you can afford it, so you can record the direct sound as well, or maybe right after the amp section. I think e.g. the Zoom H4 has a line in.

Anyway, I would be leery of adding too much reverb; this is something that can't be dialed out by the FOH engineer without affecting your core tone. I don't know how much reverb you would need to use for live sound?
Delays can also muddy up the sound, but are generally better. Just keep the repeats/feedback to the minimum necessary.
Both reverbs and delays create an artificial space for your sounds to live in. If this space becomes too large etc, it can make your sound seem distant. Again, no live experience here.

It seems like the low end EQ you talk about is a low shelf, which is different from a high pass filter. I would prefer the latter myself for cleaning up the low end and give the bass+kick some elbow room down there. Try experimenting with different frequency and gain settings with your band to find the best setting - leave as much room for the other instruments as possible, without sounding weak. I guess the slope may change based on the particular settings. Again, do this with your other instruments present, otherwise you'll be afraid to dial out too much bass in your tone But -50Hz/-7 may of course be a great setting.

Regarding 800Hz - vocals vs. cream Well, there are no right or wrongs, just good and bad sounds :-). Keep in mind that people come to listen to a band, not the guitarist (if anything, it's usually the vocalist who is the main attraction). And when frequencies are overlapping, BOTH instruments usually suffer; and then the guitar has to be the one to give way (unless you're handy with a scalpel and some quick home surgery on your lead singer).

That being said, maybe 800Hz is NOT the critical spot for your singer's particular voice. Maybe boosting 800Hz by a bit does not clash. Maybe a dip at 800 Hz and a slight boost at 900 Hz doesn't clash but still sounds great... There are no rules, all this has to be figures out on a case-by-case basis.

Also consider whether you could just add the 800Hz for your solos, where the guitar tone takes center stage. That's probably what I would do; pick the right time to shine.

If it were a mix I was going to EQ, I would play all the tracks at their individually set "suitable" levels, and then add a parametric EQ (like the studio EQ on the KPA) to the guitar with nothing boosted or cut. Then I would take one of the mid frequency bands, boost it and maybe make the Q/bandwidth a bit narrower, and then sweep all the way from say 100 to 8000 Hz, and make a note of at which frequency(ies) the singer seems to get overpowered by the guitar. OK, overpowered is a strong word; maybe it's more like he becomes less out-in-front, less intelligble, less... whatever. That's the frequencies I would look at dipping a bit on the guitar. And then look at adjacent frequencies to see if anything can be boosted in the guitar which DOESN*T clutter up the vocal, and DOES make the guitar sound better. Also, don't clutter up the bass either.

Regarding shaving off the high end; that, as everything else, depends on the core sound. Maybe your tone is fine in this area, and should be left alone. It sounds like you're already aware of the possibility of a piercing high end/headache frequencies, so maybe that's not your biggest problem.

Don't forget to cut the bass/lo mid frequencies from the reverb and delay as well - they can muck stuff up real fast.

HEY! WAKE UP!!!

Final advice: Just ask the front of house engineers you work with what they like and/or didn't like about your guitar sound. Ask if there's anything they would have liked to be different to make their job easier. Ask how the sound was in front of the stage. Ask what they DID do with your sound. Be polite and respectful. I'm sure they would love you for asking how you can make their job easier next time.

Also, is it not possible to take an audio feed from the mixing board BEFORE it hits the EQs etc....? That way you can EQ to get a good recorded tone, and let the FoH mess with the going to the speakers.

Ah... Yeah, not all sound guys are very "dedicated"

Sounds like the solo tone is the most important to you; that's good during solos YOUR tone is king If you have a floorboard controller, you can just make your solo tone different from your rhythm tone etc. Maybe just an EQ in a stomp slot will do the trick.

What do you use for on-stage sound? cabinet, FRFR or what?

You could consider using e.g. the monitor output for the DXR and the main out for the board (I guess you do this already). In the master section of the Kemper, you can set up EQ curves for these indipendently. Maybe this is also something to consider