The Ultimate Recording Solution Needs An Editor :)

  • I've made this request before and I'm sure I'll make it again....


    I think the KPA is arguably the single best piece of gear I have ever bought...I have the rack since its release.


    I'm in the recording camp of users whose (KPA) life would be far more enjoyable with an on screen editor. I have my rack mounted in a recording desk...as I'm sure many do...and sit with guitar in hand. Given the limitless tweaks an imagination can have with the KPA I find myself reaching across the desk...banging my guitar...endlessly fiddiling with my profiles.


    My set up...



    [Blocked Image: http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j447/clivin1/1-1_zpsa1169b09.jpg]



    We operate most everything else in our recording set ups with a mouse and some kind of visual representation of gear...mixer, plugins, drums etc...


    I fire up my Eleven Rack every once and a while and I'm reminded of the ease of use the onscreen editor gives and the creative spark that comes with that.


    I spent the weekend contemplating a switch back to the 11R and possibly even back to the Axe Fx 2 but I just love the feel and tones I get with the Kemper too much :)


    An editor (and footswitch...wink wink) would make the KPA in conjunction with the already brilliant Rig Manger the single most complete and accurate guitar system available. I also strongly believe this would be a great way to improve sales (not that they need it....but who doesn't want more sales) and start swinging the AF2 crowd over. Don't under estimate the Mouse Army :)

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  • Studio66 I for one aswell would love an editor and its been mentioned by lots of users on here that they would love one to. I'm not sure if an editor in any way is part of the KPA teams product releases. Editing on the KPA is quite user friendly but a computer editor would sure make it easier and faster. Maybe if we keep going on about this to the KPA team they might put it to the test and give us one. One of my biggest pet hates about KPA and RM is you load a rig from RM into the the KPA edit it to suit your needs and then you have to save it to the KPA and then resave that rig back to RM. This is a pain as I wish it just saved it back in RM

  • C Kemper categorically stated that an editor wasn't going to happen. Whether this influences your decision to drop the KPA is up to you.


    It's funny you believe that using a mouse and keyboard sparks creativity. Studies have shown exactly the opposite! Mice and keyboards force you to use hand/eye coordination, putting your brain into a state suited to that, which happens to be at odds with the brain's best creative state, especially with regards to audio. Having tactile knobs enables you to simply turn them without having to use your eyes, leaving you to focus all your sensory perception on to your ears and what you are hearing. Solid State Logic (SSL) have done a load of studies on this, one of the main reasons why they created their Nucleus control surface for controlling DAW operations and plugins.


    Cheers,
    Sam

  • One of my biggest pet hates about KPA and RM is you load a rig from RM into the the KPA edit it to suit your needs and then you have to save it to the KPA and then resave that rig back to RM.


    it is supposed to save back changes instantly but as it turns out, there is an issue which we have not ironed out so far. so right now, as for instant, the change only appears ... sometimes ...
    gs

    Get in touch with Profiler online support team here

  • I disagree with Sam Brox.
    It's not about what studies have or haven't shown about creativity, it's about Integration into the workflow that's present in many many studios.


    I've said it before:
    I'm sure the more users demand an editor the more Kemper will feel inclined to develop one.
    Just like with the rack version.


    I agree with the OP, so here's my
    +1. :)

  • Well, if/when the unit is hard to reach like the OP described I can certainly see how an on-screen editor could make lofe easier, regardless UI's complexity.


    I'm also confident that when Kemper are relieved of more basic and prioritary tasks they could start considering an editor: after all, when the Profiler is mature and stable an editor would be nothing but a further reason to regularly use a Profiler. And we know that it is a great studio beast...


    :)

  • C Kemper categorically stated that an editor wasn't going to happen. Whether this influences your decision to drop the KPA is up to you.


    It's funny you believe that using a mouse and keyboard sparks creativity. Studies have shown exactly the opposite! Mice and keyboards force you to use hand/eye coordination, putting your brain into a state suited to that, which happens to be at odds with the brain's best creative state, especially with regards to audio. Having tactile knobs enables you to simply turn them without having to use your eyes, leaving you to focus all your sensory perception on to your ears and what you are hearing. Solid State Logic (SSL) have done a load of studies on this, one of the main reasons why they created their Nucleus control surface for controlling DAW operations and plugins.


    Cheers,
    Sam


    I'm sure those studies have some validity but just not on my desk ;)


    I like knobs as much as the next guy...yikes!....but 5 years with my Eleven showed me I like mice just as much. I knew the KPA did not have the editor, footswitch (and at that time ) the librarian but in all honesty I thought they would come. I could have bought the "toaster" version but it would mess with my studio feng shui if that makes any sense :)


    I agree with the poster above...its about workflow and that's as distinctive with each user. perhaps I'm in the minority (not the first time) but I don't really think so...but even if I am what would it hurt to offer such a feature and expand the user base possibly even further...it wont affect the "knob turners" in an adverse way. Most modelling units have some sort of editor so I'm sure from a programming standpoint its doable.


    I look at the KPA as the easiest way to get great and accurate amp tones, effects etc....why not make it the easiest to use for the widest market possible. I have friends, recording junkies like me, that use the AF2 strictly on the basis of workflow (MFC 101 and Axe Edit) they love the tone of my KPA but don't want to sacrifice their process of creativity.


    It just seems a reasonable feature in a unit of this caliber and price...IMHO :)

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  • I agree with everything that's been said about workflow, I was just taking up your point about creativity. Of course, everyone's workflow is different and whatever is most comfortable for you is probably what keeps you at your most creative. Sometimes though, it's worth investigating your own workflow, as even drastic changes that at first feel alien and uncomfortable can end up freeing you up to be even more creative. I'm talking more generally now, of course. The reason I say this is I was at one of SSL's workshops a year or two back and some of the concepts seemed totally whacky to me, to the point where I didn't believe them, even though they made logical sense. Against my own will, I forced myself to implement a few small changes sequentially over time until I ended up with something that resembled something from the workshop and it turned out to be quite the eye opener!


    The basic mantra was have everything that you use regularly and is most important to your creative process within a distance so that you don't have to reach. As close as possible. Anything secondary you can put in the next zone (maybe where your Kemper is now, haha;-) where you maybe have to stretch a little to reach it, and anything you use rarely in the next zone. I took the whole thing about tactility to heart too (I used to always EQ using my mouse and with spectrographs up) and have found it quicker and easier to get where I want to be.


    Just food for thought!
    Cheers,
    Sam


    Edit: sorry, I realise I'm totally off topic here!


  • Not off topic at all :) I take your points as intended, they are appreciated and it is food thought...Thanks!


    Its funny as I often suggest to people to get out of their comfort zone in various situations and here I am trying very hard to stay in my own. I sometimes think as musicians we get ritualistic about method and a wee bit spooked when that method is challenged.


    definitely food for thought!!


    pssst....ck...I still would love an editor :)

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  • This strikes me as particularly odd, given the amazing integration of the Virus synths. With the Virus, it's not just an editor, the hardware acts like it's a plug-in. I have a Virus TI2 Polar and it works like a dream. Why would the company, who is famous for this technology (Virus TI - Total Integration) leave it out of what seems to be a flagship product? One of the sales points for me buying a Kemper was that it was the same company as the Virus. I thought I'd be able to have a comparable technology for my guitar. Alas, this hasn't been the case. The Kemper is clunky at best when it comes to real world integration. It's not designed whatsoever to work with a DAW. If it weren't for the tone I'd have been long gone.


    Am I missing something? Are there plans to go to this TI route? Will the Kemper ever be comparable to the Virus?

  • This strikes me as particularly odd, given the amazing integration of the Virus synths. With the Virus, it's not just an editor, the hardware acts like it's a plug-in. I have a Virus TI2 Polar and it works like a dream. Why would the company, who is famous for this technology (Virus TI - Total Integration) leave it out of what seems to be a flagship product? One of the sales points for me buying a Kemper was that it was the same company as the Virus. I thought I'd be able to have a comparable technology for my guitar. Alas, this hasn't been the case. The Kemper is clunky at best when it comes to real world integration. It's not designed whatsoever to work with a DAW. If it weren't for the tone I'd have been long gone.


    Am I missing something? Are there plans to go to this TI route? Will the Kemper ever be comparable to the Virus?


    I didn't know that....interesting.


    Thanks!

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  • FWIW


    I have the exact same desk as OP.
    Before I came to Kemper I used an AxeFx Ultra for a long time and I had it in the upper right rack, just like where OP has his Profiler.
    Reaching over there to edit it was a major pain and I welcomed the editor software (which was really mandatory with that kind of UI).


    Fun fact: probably THE most often voiced request in the Axe forum was a way to control the unit with hardware.
    people wrote scripts for things like the Behringer BCF or BCR, and kept requesting a more 'analog' UI, since the former approach didn't really work out.


    I also have a masterkeyboard on the main part of the desk and the Profiler sits happily on top of it. When I play guitar in my fav monitoring position I can reach all elements easily and intuitively.
    The point is: the Profiler was specifically designed to be interacted with, the request for a rack version came mainly from heavily touring guitarists, that wanted the Profiler to fit in effortlessly with their other gear.


    With OP's setup, I would have chosen the Lunchbox version, as I know many, many pros with similar setups have.


  • Interesting points and history...thanks!


    I would have picked the Lunchbox version but the surface of the desk is highly sought after real estate by many other things that contribute to production...the many pro's must have bigger desks :)


    I also would have thought the profiler was "specifically" designed to capture the soul of the amps that it profiles and then offer us a multitude of ways to manipulate it. I love the knobs for a quick on the fly adjustment but for the serious work I would much prefer an editor.


    Given the editor in the synth, I just learned about in this thread, I really don't see the opposition to it from a company standpoint...but its their company and its a great product....just feels a little incomplete to me.


    YMMV

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    Edited once, last by studio66 ().

  • I'd like to see further development of RM first.
    Extended search, custom views, updating the OS via RM, maybe managing perfomances at some point.


    an editor would be nice to have but it is definitely not important for me.

    90% of the game is half-mental.

  • I'd like to see further development of RM first.
    Extended search, custom views, updating the OS via RM, maybe managing perfomances at some point.


    an editor would be nice to have but it is definitely not important for me.

    The Eleven Rack editor and (their version) of a Rig Manager are in one...so seamless and simple....dare I say it again...it fuels the imagination and (at least my) creativity. Its the unit I cut my teeth on and miss those features. Not everyone needs or wants an editor but what harm including one for those who do :) and is easily ignored by those who don't want it...I'll bet they wont though...its addictive when its that easy ;)

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