MW RokPak - Profiles for Kemper Profiling Amplifiers

    You can advertise your profiles - but the name of the profiles can't be the names of the real brands.


    All my profiles have generic names.

    (All trademarks are trademarks of their respective owners, which are in no way associated or affiliated with soundside.de)


    Great Profiles --> soundside.de

    If I'm a betting man (which i'm not) I will go out on a limb and say the next real legal battle for the KPA will be the legalese argument of "substance over Form" that could potentially halt all profiling and make it illegal. The modelers in the past (Line 6, Fractal) got away with this due to the fact that modeling never came this close and the mfg's knew it and didnt worry about it. The Kemper is a whole different story and I hope the hammer / brick wall isnt up around the bend.


    Modeling an amp is one thing...the ability to essentially "clone" it's sound and characteristics is another.

    I have no argument. Just some thoughts. There are a lot of amps out there that look and sound like Marshall plexi's being sold. You may say that they are clones. Marshall and Mesa borrowed from Fender. What about AxeFX? Are they in the same boat? Like I said just some cloudy thoughts.

    dunno 'bout that... there are so many variables around cloning versus proving beyond a shadow of doubt. I'll be surprised if they could successfully prove that some profile of an amp, was actually theirs..tubes, mics, caps, etc. all vary and create the slightest nuances of tone... solo many variations, so little time. Bring on the profiler!

    Gettin' funky up in here..

    Quote from Robbue

    If I'm a betting man (which i'm not) I will go out on a limb and say the next real legal battle for the KPA will be the legalese argument of "substance over Form" that could potentially halt all profiling and make it illegal. The modelers in the past (Line 6, Fractal) got away with this due to the fact that modeling never came this close and the mfg's knew it and didnt worry about it. The Kemper is a whole different story and I hope the hammer / brick wall isnt up around the bend.


    Modeling an amp is one thing...the ability to essentially "clone" it's sound and characteristics is another.


    I'm not sure they (Marshall, Mesa etc...) would legally have much ground to stand on.


    They just need to adjust with the times, and try and break in to this market.


    Digital modeling and profiling is considerably better than it's ever been, and as a result is gaining more and more market share.....

    Picked up a copy of Antares' Microphone Modeller plugin today at Guitar Center; it's a plugin that tries to turn the sound recorded from any one of a number of classic microphones into any other from the same list. Naturally, dozens of brand names are called out; Neumann, Earthworks, Royer, etc. As part of the install, there's a file called "Mic Mod EFX Disclaimer.rtf". Thought I'd reprint it here. As far as I'm aware, Antares Technologies has never been sued over this product.


    The “Don’t Sue Us!” Disclaimer: All names of microphone manufacturers and microphone model designations appearing in this manual are used solely to identify the microphones analyzed in the development of our digital models and do not in any way imply any association with or endorsement by any of the named manufacturers.


    This product is not guaranteed to produce, and will not necessarily produce, audio results that are consistent with or match audio results that could be achieved using any of the referenced microphone models.


    -djh



    Wow they are still selling Mic Modeler? I remember playing around with that plugin at least 13 years ago.


    That's too bad Chandler is being silly and seeing the glass only half empty. Like how many people that would "incidently" be using the Kemper profile of the amp would have been in the market of buying the real amp if it wasn't for the profile? Honestly I didn't even know Chandler made guitar amps. Whereas if Wade would embrace the whole Kemper thing and allow profiles it would only serve to heighten awareness and interest in his amp. ah shucks, there's not going to be a Chandler profile, guess I will have to go buy the real amp now. NOT!

    Edited once, last by Animus ().

    Quote from Animus

    Wow they are still selling Mic Modeler? I remember playing around with that plugin at least 13 years ago.


    Me too. It's up to version 2 now, and includes AVox Chorus for $19.99. At twenty bucks, it was an impulse buy at today's Labor Day sale 8)


    13 years without a lawsuit ain't bad!


    -djh

    Quote from viabcroce

    Yeah. This is one of the degenerative aspects of "freedom". Scary. With money enough, people can do any sort of things to you.


    Hmm well I do not agree exactly.


    The deputies might threaten you but you still have a choice. Money makes pushing for your interests easier but you won't be right automatically. And you can almost always outsmart them anyway by avoiding the protected brand names or changing the distribution model (providing a service instead of selling profiles) or even moving your distribution site to a different country.


    In this case it might very well be the personal relationships (friendships) MW does not want to put through a stress test. That is totally understandable. And selling profiles is only a tiny part of his business - if any. So no risk at all! Again - very understandable.


    My personal view on this though is, that Mr. Ch might even sell an amp or two more because of MW's profiles, but fear of change (instead of seeing the chances and potentials) is a common reaction - even from experienced business guys.


    IRs have been around for many years, so why all the fuzz about profiles?


    In terms of descriptions (and pictures) nobody has ever sued a musician, because he published pictures of his amp settings. Guitarrist magazines are packed with rig rundowns. I suggest one simply divides the service and the info into separate parts and makes them available independently (and the info for free); Like a blog on your website where you describe how you achieved certain sounds in your productions (in a separate area).


    Don't be afraid of the deputies! :D

    90% of the game is half-mental.

    Edited once, last by bigHF ().

    Quote from DukeOURL

    dunno 'bout that... there are so many variables around cloning versus proving beyond a shadow of doubt. I'll be surprised if they could successfully prove that some profile of an amp, was actually theirs..tubes, mics, caps, etc. all vary and create the slightest nuances of tone... solo many variations, so little time. Bring on the profiler!


    I basically agree...but ... there is one major difference in comparing other modelers to the Kemper from a "perception" perspective via it's marketing that if I was a lawyer I would make a ton of hay out of and that's all the videos demonstrating the profiling process and how when A/B'd back n forth the perceived reality is that the sound of that amp is exact and captured perfectly. Other modelers give the perception via their marketing and video demonstrations that they are reasonable facsimiles of amp types. I don't know but when Andy is told to take down pictures and guys like WC are telling MW to cease selling the Wizard... usually when there is smoke, there is a fire brewing underneath. Grab em all up now boys!

    Quote from mwagener

    In order to replace Wizard and Chandler (those profiles have been completely removed) I did new profiles with a 1965 VOX greyplate, a 1968 Fender Bandmaster, an early Fender Deluxe Blackface and a Fender Twin, because I saw there were request here on the forum for some of these.

    Good news for me :thumbup:


    I especially love old Vox-amps and Fender Blackfaces, for others maybe it's bad news, but your reaction is understandable.


    The KPA is getting more and more publicity and especially the big amp-manufacturers don't like this development.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de

    Quote from dhodgson

    This product is not guaranteed to produce, and will not necessarily produce, audio results that are consistent with or match audio results that could be achieved using any of the referenced microphone models.[/b]


    -djh



    Kind of own goal, isn't it? :D



    Quote from bigHF

    Hmm well I do not agree exactly.


    Don't be afraid of the deputies! :D


    I mean that, if you're not healthy, you can't suit (I mean affording a court) and you can't respond to an unfair suit as well. This is specially true for the small things, most of the times you end up thinking "well, it's not worth the cost"... and you give up.


    Meucci had not the money to respond to Bell's claims... and we all know how it ended up. He died poor.


    I guess my conclusion is that in the "free market" world the weaks don't get usually protected. Those with more money always win.


    Now I realize this is by far OT tho :D

    Quote from Animus


    That's too bad Chandler is being silly and seeing the glass only half empty. Like how many people that would "incidently" be using the Kemper profile of the amp would have been in the market of buying the real amp if it wasn't for the profile? Honestly I didn't even know Chandler made guitar amps. Whereas if Wade would embrace the whole Kemper thing and allow profiles it would only serve to heighten awareness and interest in his amp. ah shucks, there's not going to be a Chandler profile, guess I will have to go buy the real amp now. NOT!


    Very well put! :thumbup:

    Amp manufacturers should pay Kemper and Commercial Profilers to Profile their amps, never mind stopping them.


    Trust me, the sales of these amps increase due to the FREE advertising these amps are given by the exposure of Profiles or "modelling".
    How many guitarists knew what a Soldano was, or why a 65 Deluxe Reverb was the Holy Grail Fender amp, etc, etc, prior to Line 6 releasing their very first POD?
    I can tell you, I was a member of the original Line 6 Forum, most guitarists had never been exposed to these amps before, they knew very little about them until Line 6 exposed them to the guitar world.


    Amp manufacturers have less than zero chance of winning a lawsuit, they'll spend a ton of money on legal fees and LOSE.

    How about this...


    From now on, all studios, all producers, engineers, etc, participating on the internet and Youtube, from this day on do not mention or film the names of the amps you're using to record famous bands, guitarists.
    Cover the amps with a sheet and don't give the amp "names/manufacturers" exposure to the millions of Youtube viewers and internet participants....make them pay for the FREE exposure, advertising and sales they're getting worldwide.


    Let them do their own advertising and pay for it...

    I think it's all about plugins, UAD is very popular and UAD is selling the Chandler GAV19T-plugin for $199.00. And for $199.00 you just get this one Chandler-amp and nothing more.
    Maybe Chandler is afraid that a famous producer like MW is selling the same amp for a few dollars, the whole Über-pack with more than 200 profiles is available for just $210.00 / $240.00.


    Personally I think that the UAD-plugins are too expensive, for 7 amps (Chandler, Engl and Softube) you'd pay $797.00, guess how many KPA-profiles you could buy for this money..... ;)

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de

    Quote from mwagener

    In order to replace Wizard and Chandler (those profiles have been completely removed) I did new profiles with a 1965 VOX greyplate, a 1968 Fender Bandmaster, an early Fender Deluxe Blackface and a Fender Twin, because I saw there were request here on the forum for some of these. I also added a second profile of the ADA MP-1 without using the Furman PQ-3 in front of it. It is a bit darker sounding, because of the missing EQ, but you get a more pure sound of the actual amp. The good news is that the Studio Pak now has 101 profiles and Über Pak now has 204 profiles total.


    Great news! Although, I liked the samples of especially these two amps quite very much. Nevertheless, just pre-ordered UberPak. And now, ... can't wait. ;)