Full range speakers in a guitar cab?

A proper FRFR cabinet will definitely sound better, since the dimensions and shape of a guitar cabinet are meant to emphasize/cut certain frequencies, but FRFR speakers in your guitar cab will certainly work.

As for what speakers to get... as far as I'm aware, there aren't any plain 12"s that will do the trick - one speaker isn't able to be flat enough across the whole range we're working with, thus all the filters and tweeters. You could try something like the EVM 12L, which is a guitar-range speaker that tries to be as flat as possible, but the consensus seems to be that they still sound like you're playing through a guitar speaker.

Examples of cheap, *near* FRFR, speakers:
Beyma 12GA50
Monacor SP 30 PATC

I wouldn't swap the speakers of your cab because it's a hit or miss game (more likely miss).
If you really want to know if FRFR works better for you buy a DXR 10 or CLR and hear for yourself (and make use of the return policy, if need be).

I'm confused now.
When you're satisfied with your monitor sound through the Bogner why change?
That said, you could still try and use any active FRFR and switch off the poweramp in your profiler.

I'm pretty sure your sound will change by a good amount. This is not necessarily bad, but it might not go into the direction you're expecting.

"Improvement" is a very subjective concept. With a linear cab, your profiles will sound more faithful to how their author heard them from their monitors while creating them. You might not like the result, but the good news is that with a linear audio system you'll always know what's right and what's wrong with your tone, and will be able to tweak it with more easiness and "awareness".

Listen to your sound through the PA FOH (not at full volume): chances are a good FRFR cab would sound similarly.

And Lokasenna is right: there's not such a thing like an FRFR cone. You might find some ERFR ones tho (extended range, flat response). If you want a really flat response from say 70 to 17000 Hz you'll need a woofer, a tweeter, a crossover and a good design, not to mention skills. The fact that not two "FRFR" cabs sound the same should ring a warning bell in your mind!

And you're right, in order to use the Kemper power amp with a cab the latter has to be passive, or to allow for its internal amp to be switched off.

You might consider a passive CLR tho, one of the best cabs you could buy for the money.

As for missing low freqs, it really depends on how much low end your current cab has got. Cones' size is less meaningful than the overall cab design in this respect.
The CLR has got a 12" cone anyway.

HTH

Quote from Dorrus

[quote='Ingolf','index.php?page=Thread&postID=161469#post161469']I'm confused now.
When you're satisfied with your monitor sound through the Bogner why change?
That said, you could still try and use any active FRFR and switch off the poweramp in your profiler.[/quot

I'm happy with the sound and rigs that i'm using now.
But if I want to hear excactly what the public is hearing, I have to switch to frfr speakers.
I dont want to turn the poweramp off.
If I use the frfr I can also leave the cab sim on in monitor out.

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Ok I got you now.
Then you are best off with a passive Atomic CLR.

Yes, but it's like the difference between your stereo and the guy next door - as long as it's decent gear, your tone should be fairly consistent. You might have to use the Kemper's output EQ to tweak a little for each system, but that's about it.

As for comparing to your monitors, the most important thing is to set up your patches at live volumes rather than what you might normally use at home. Our ears respond very differently to frequencies as the volume changes, so a tone that sounds badass at bedroom level might be a scoopy, ear-piercing mess when you crank it.

The two models you referred to sound resonably symilar to each other, even tho not the same. Specially since you're using an external amp.
You can order either of them from any of the many stores which offer a return policy.

Of course each PA will sound its own way. The advantage of using a really linear cab such as a CLR is that you'll minimize the error (that is, the possible differences among PAs)

I'm not real sure about matching volumes but I can say that I have the powerhead and still use a powered speaker. I just wanted to clear up confusion that the powerhead can't be used with the yamaha dxr10 because that is my set up as well as using it with a mesa 4x12. I haven't experimented with using them at the same time but you just have to use the appropriate output for whichever speaker setup you are using. The mesa 4x12 takes the powered out while the yamaha takes the nonpowered outputs (monitor or mains). I can say the yamaha get extremely loud as well. I hope I have made sense and didn't misinterpret previous statements. Best of luck.

There aren't just CLR and DXR 10, that's just the two ones Ingo has bought.

I have an active Matrix Q12a (+ toaster Powerhead) and it's a very good FRFR-cab, too.

If you like FRFR-systems or not is very subjective, I'm used to high-end studio monitors at low levels and it's difficult for me to use even good FRFR-systems like CLR and Matrix at higher levels. At higher levels I'm used to cranked up tube-combos (max. 30 watts).

The best is always to try it out, CLR and FRFR-cabs with coaxial-speakers (Matrix Q12a, KPA-solutions) might sound closer to a guitar-cab, because they don't use horns like the Dynacord MX12 or Yamaha DXR10.

I'll put in a recommendation for Xitone - I've got the passive 1x12 wedge and it sounds awesome - close enough to my monitors that I can get a good recording tone through it, but still has enough "oomph" to feel like a real amp.

Quote from Dorrus

The output isn't as high as the Bogner guitar cab 97 db vs 100db and that worries me a bit becourse we play very loud, but its a revelation to use the cab sims.

Don't worry, playing longer at levels of 97 dB will leave you deaf very soon.
This is only semi- joking. Protect your hearing.

To put in some more practical value: I can perfectly understand that you want to and need to keep up with a loud drummer and your gear should deliver this without a problem.
You can try this when playing together next time.

But after making sure you can it would be very wise to step back in terms of volume and loudness, together as a band.

Dorrus,

Those values in dB measure the sensitivity of the cabs: it means how loud they sound with a standard input tension. The least sensitive cab will nead a stronger signal to sound louder. So no, it's not s matter of setting the power amp 3 dB higher in order to compensate 100-97 dB.

You can certainly increase the poweramp's output tho, as long as you do not overdrive the cab. But, as I golf wrote, be careful to not overdrive your ears

A bit OT: I know that even a drummer can play quieter by putting not so much strength in the beats, but I always feel that (e.g. in a rock song) there's something missing then...call it drive or power. I have the impression that many songs need powerful played drums to work and if a drummer plays like this, the other instruments won't be loud enough when "only" set to ~100 dB. I have a SPL meter and my guitar sounds are always levelled @ 110-115 dB to keep up with the drums. And we were/are not a loud band... What's your opinion?