I'm wondering, is that warranty period extended beyond the usual 2 years for that particular problem for that particular production run?
Interesting question! Purchased my KPA on 07.08.2012 and I have this LED issue too...
Latency and current firmware
- Karl_Houseknecht
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1) The KPA-latency is individually depending on the used profiles and effects, a latency of 2 or 3 ms is quite low and reflects the natural situation sitting next to an amp.
That's pretty low, and reasonable. I would not be able to feel 2-3 ms. Or hear it.
Quote2) Latency is everywhere and totally normal, if you use guitar-amps and you don't have your ears inside the speakers, you will have latency. If your distance on stage to your guitar-cab would be 3 meters (normal stage-situation), you would have a 10 ms (!) latency.
My amp is rarely more than 2 meters away from me on stage. But even so, there's no feeling or hearing the latency. Early reflections smooth it out for sure, but I also usually have a monitor up front throwing back guitar at me. 10ms is audible. And I could, at times, hear the latency from the KPA even direct to my near fields at home. So it's at least 10ms.
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The 2-3 ms that the KPA introduces to the signal chain is as good as it gets.
It also matches the values of other highend digital devices like Mr. Scheffler pointed out.
It will be a very long time until we'll see a generation of processors that will allow to go significantly below these values.
What we will inevitably see sooner though is the possibility to connect digital devices like the KPA and the CLR digitally to prevent from latency adding up.Personally I don't feel any latency with the profiler compared to my tube amps.
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What we will inevitably see sooner though is the possibility to connect digital devices like the KPA and the CLR digitally to prevent from latency adding up.Not to belabor the point, but I don't feel or hear ANY latency when connecting ANY other modelers to the CLR.
Anyway, good discussion and thanks for the responses, but I'm out for now.
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On the other hand, if you're comparing to a studio setup, where you have a mic a couple of inches in front of a cab, then the latency would be almost non-existent. Maybe that is the reference point for many people (which would sort of make sense if they're primarily using it for recording rather than gigging').
Never had a problem with latency myself
Even in studios (I always play guitars in the control-room) you won't sit directly with your ear inside the monitors. A normal hearing situation would be a 1 to 2 meter-distance using nearfield-monitors. The KPA-latency normally is below 1 meter, there shouldn't be a problem with latency at all. For me the KPA always feels very "natural", like playing a real amp, miked up in a studio or sitting/standing next to an amp.
Karl_Houseknecht: what other modelers do you use? For sure PODs have more latency, I don't know the CLR, but with my FRFR-cab (Matrix Q12a) I can't feel any added latency.
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Karl_Houseknecht: what other modelers do you use? For sure PODs have more latency, I don't know the CLR, but with my FRFR-cab (Matrix Q12a) I can't feel any added latency.
I don't want this to be about the other modelers, but for the record, I have an Axe-Fx II, POD HD500x, Eleven Rack, and POD 2. None of them have that slight delay between the actual pick attack and what I hear coming out of near fields like the KPA did.
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I don't want this to be about the other modelers, but for the record, I have an Axe-Fx II, POD HD500x, Eleven Rack, and POD 2. None of them have that slight delay between the actual pick attack and what I hear coming out of near fields like the KPA did.
I don't mean to stir a pot here but this seems so illogical to me, that the KPA should be the one with the perceivable latency out of all the other units.
There must have been something seriously wrong. -
I don't mean to stir a pot here but this seems so illogical to me, that the KPA should be the one with the perceivable latency out of all the other units.
There must have been something seriously wrong.indeed.
sounds almost like a direct monitoring issue to me.
as if the signal is going through the DAW's AD/DA conversion instead of being monitored directly. -
I agree there is something strange here if you are hearing latency, I'd check the routing
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sounds almost like a direct monitoring issue to me.
as if the signal is going through the DAW's AD/DA conversion instead of being monitored directly.Nope. Modelers direct to near fields. No intermediary computer. No DAW. Couldn't monitor it any more directly.
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I'm latency sensitive to the point where it messes with my solo playing when using PODS or software but I really can't detect any in my Kemper. It's one of the reasons why I use it exclusively now...
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Guys, if you want to measure latency, you can do it with this little utility: https://centrance.com/downloads/ltu/
Perception of the latency is personal. I think our brain is able to adapt to higher latency to some extent. This could explain why some of us perceive different levels than others.
Playing through VST sims on computer can shift our perception to be more tolerant to latency.
If you are playing only in front of you pure analog amp, you may not be tolerant to higher levels of latency.I did some measurements with KPA. Interface used: RME Hamerfall DSP Multiface buffer set to 256 [email protected]
Pure analog RME loop test: 13.79ms
Pure SPDIF RME loop test: 12.43ms[Blocked Image: http://oi57.tinypic.com/29d8ink.jpg]
* all numbers in ms
* all stomps & FX turned offThis shows that KPA processing latency is around 3ms (SPDIF loop diff), if we take into account also AD/DA then KPA latency is around 5ms (this means 1ms for A/D and 1ms for D/A, which is very good!)
So if you are playing KPA to analog amplifier, you should not get more than 5ms latency from KPA. I think nobody can perceive 5ms.
If you do perceive latency when playing KPA, there must be some other reason for it, not KPA. -
This show that KPA processing latency is around 3ms (SPDIF loop diff), if we take into account also AD/DA then KPA latency is around 5ms (this means 1ms for A/D and 1ms for D/A, which is very good!)
just to illustrate the impact of 5ms: this is also the delay being introduced by the player being 1.7m away from the speaker.
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I've said it before, I'll say it again - remember, latency is cumulative, so:
KPA: 5ms (3ms + 2ms A/D/A)
Average FRFR with DSP: 2ms
Average distance from speaker (in my case): 2m = 7ms
Total: 14ms, which is barely acceptable *for me*I certainly wish the latency in the KPA was shorter, but I don't see it happening unless they come up with new hardware. I'll probably take a look at FRFR speakers without DSP again some day, didn't find anything decent by the time I bought my DXR10.
One thing that bothers me is that manufacturers don't consider the A/D - D/A conversion in their latency specs, Kemper included, so I think it's better to come up with a term that conveys the total latency involved. Analog latency? End-to-end latency? I don't know, but I think the way manufacturers disclose it is a bit misleading.
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I certainly wish the latency in the KPA was shorter, but I don't see it happening unless they come up with new hardware. I'll probably take a look at FRFR speakers without DSP again some day, didn't find anything decent by the time I bought my DXR10.
You can avoid to hear the latency of your DAW, I'm using a monitor controller (SPL 2381), going from the KPA straight via the "Musician"-input into my monitors (no latency). The signal for recording is going parallel into the inputs of my audio-interface.
By the way, audio-interfaces can make a big difference, too. The UAD Apollos are working with a nearly zero-latency, 14 ms like in your case is too much and wouldn't be acceptable for me. In my case it's all together not more than about 5 to 6 ms, the distance to my monitors already included.
Karl_Houseknecht: it can't be the KPA causing your latency-problems, I've been using the newest PODs, too and they have more latency. Or maybe it's the profiles you are using, profiling can make a big latency-difference.
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Karl_Houseknecht: it can't be the KPA causing your latency-problems, I've been using the newest PODs, too and they have more latency. Or maybe it's the profiles you are using, profiling can make a big latency-difference.Signal chain was: Guitar -> KPA -> Near field monitors. Nothing else. No computer, no audio interface, no DAW.
What part of that signal chain would most likely introduce the latency I was hearing? Also, if the KPA can't be causing my latency problems, how do some profiles contribute more to it than others?
Compare and contrast: I use the Axe and the HDx into my audio interface with direct monitoring enabled. Zero detectable latency.
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Seriously, check out compression psychoacoustic effects. Makes a big difference to the perception of latency.
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Seriously, check out compression psychoacoustic effects. Makes a big difference to the perception of latency.
Not to sound dense, but how do I do that?
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Yes, I want to know, too. Please elaborate.
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You can avoid to hear the latency of your DAW, I'm using a monitor controller (SPL 2381), going from the KPA straight via the "Musician"-input into my monitors (no latency). The signal for recording is going parallel into the inputs of my audio-interface.
I'm going to buy a new external interface for my iMac, and I'm thinking to some MOTU low-end model...My plan is to use SPDIF to avoid AD/DA/AD conversion, but what about using also the KPA audio output just for monitoring purposes?
Do you think it can be done?
Many audio cards offer a direct monitoring option for audio inputs. Maybe it's also possible to record SPDIF signal at the same time?I'm not quite expert in this... any thought/suggestion about any other particular brand/model ?
thanks in advance
Enrico
