Balancing input sense settings for multiple guitars

  • Hi all.


    I've had my Kemper for nearly two years now. It took me a while to pluck up the courage to use it live, but just about a year ago I did, it was OK...not stellar, but OK.


    I've used it live ever since (about 40 shows), often with mixed results. Sometimes really great and sometimes disappointing.


    Problem is that I use 6 or 7 different guitars when I play live in two bands and I use just a few different Performances.


    I have continually had to fight with the stomp settings and the input sense settings. Sometimes it works great, other times the volume increases and gain changes that happen when I use the stomps are so wildly out of what I though they were set at.


    All rigs in my performances have the same stomps and FX settings. Comp->Green Scream->EQ->Chorus My FX slots are Pure Boost->Trem


    It seems that I spend ages setting my input senses for each guitar but I find it impossible to make them all compatible with the stomp setups in each performance.


    I'll pick up a different guitar, select the appropriate sense preset for that guitar and the stomp gains/volumes are SO different. I never had a problem like this with my amps and regular stomp boxes.


    I know it must be my input sense settings. Each guitar I use has had plenty of attention to set them right to the best I know how, and they work great individually, no problem here. It's when I try to use a rig/performance that has been tuned for one guitar with a different guitar. It all goes to hell pretty quickly.


    It seems to me that there's a very fine line, especially with distortion sense.


    I really don't want to duplicate performances for different guitars...that would just be a nightmare. so does anyone have any good ideas how best to balance input settings for multiple guitars!

  • >I think he's already saving input presets, since he mentioned them.
    Yup, thanks guys, I currently have different presets for each of my guitars….about 10 or so.


    >A simple solution: lower all your higher clean sense presets so that all the fx sound the same.
    Hmmm…interesting, I would have thought the distortion setting is the culprit…but this is worth trying.

  • Another thought: you could treat your KPA like an amp head.


    You could lower your clean sense to zero and pick a distortion sense, say +5 (or whatever you like) and then just leave it alone. The idea being this is more or less what an amp does: having a fixed gain at its input and reacting differently to each guitar. Your Strat has a lower output and sounds different than a hot rod Les Paul. And if set correctly your KPA should react the same (or almost the same) way. There are several guys on the Forum who use this methodology.


    Of course this could really mess you up if you have super-tweaked your presets. Best of luck!

  • >A simple solution: lower all your higher clean sense presets so that all the fx sound the same.
    Hmmm…interesting, I would have thought the distortion setting is the culprit…but this is worth trying.


    It can't hurt to try DS as well. Make an experiment with just a couple of rigs.


    For sure, if entering a distortion pedal increases the distorted volume too much it can be related to DS. But the concept is the same: how did you choose your DS settings? If turning it down with a given guitar evens the sound, then you're done :)


    It might also be of help if you just kept one effect on and saw which one is the bad boy :)

  • I like this idea….May not get to it before my next gig on Saturday, but I will definitely try it. It also has the benefit of not having to switch presets every time I change guitars…..plus anything for a simpler life on stage suites me just fine!



    Another thought: you could treat your KPA like an amp head.


    You could lower your clean sense to zero and pick a distortion sense, say +5 (or whatever you like) and then just leave it alone. The idea being this is more or less what an amp does: having a fixed gain at its input and reacting differently to each guitar. Your Strat has a lower output and sounds different than a hot rod Les Paul. And if set correctly your KPA should react the same (or almost the same) way. There are several guys on the Forum who use this methodology.


    Of course this could really mess you up if you have super-tweaked your presets. Best of luck!

  • Didn't hear whether you use a midi controller or not but assuming you do maybe look into using browse mode, doesn't sound like you need to use performance mode at all. I use 2 guitars both with coil taps and have set up 4 different preset banks one for each guitar/pup combo. I use the same amps & fx on reach row the only difference is I've tweaked the eq, gain, volume, clean sense, etc to get each guitar sounding it's best to my ears and without volume dips. I had to or go insane! So bank 1 would be guitar 1 SC with 5 different amps/fx combinations, bank 2 is guitar 1 HB and so on. Yours might be even simpler, I just use a lot of different amps and stuff throughout the night. Hope this helps.

  • I'd go with Booyah's strategy. Have you tested your different guitars with the profiles you used? Do you run into similar problems when you do this at home? If clean sense and distortion sense doesn't help you achieve the sounds you want with different guitars, the best solution is to create multiple performances dedicated to each guitar.


    When you use each set of performances, don't forget to choose the appropriate input settings either. Alternatively, unlock your input section and set appropriate settings on a per profile basis. This way, whenever you use a profile for a specific guitar, the appropriate setting will be loaded.

  • I also think it is not mandatory or necessary to have presets for every guitar.
    It is maybe the best idea to have a single setting that fits to most situations, e.g. Clean Sens at 0 dB.
    One you have fixed the situation, the volume differences between different guitars would appear the same way as if you had an analog rig.

  • I also think it is not mandatory or necessary to have presets for every guitar.
    It is maybe the best idea to have a single setting that fits to most situations, e.g. Clean Sens at 0 dB.
    One you have fixed the situation, the volume differences between different guitars would appear the same way as if you had an analog rig.


    This actually makes a lot of sense, now that I've hear Mr CK say it :D


    After all, think about it: why cart around different guitars if you want them all to sound the same? ^^

  • Well, the Sense controls are not meant to make guitars sound the same, they just set sound levels. As The Man himself said their use is not mandatory; but if you know what you're doing they certainly are a tool for achieving specific behaviours.


    IMO CS is most useful when you use the same rig with different guitars. I don't want my Eko Dragon SC and my GlassMaster Bill Lawrence HB to show their actual output level difference on the same rig. OTOH, their sonic personality is preserved no matter how I set CS.
    Hope this makes clear sense :D

  • Phew, some good info here guys. Plenty of food for thought and experimentation.


    I'm definitely going to try using one input preset to see what that does. There is one guitar I tend to use the most live, so I'll try that one.


    I've driven myself crazy adjusting both the CS and DS settings for each guitar I use so I'm a bit reluctant to go down that path again, but some of what I have heard in this thread suggests a slightly different approach which may be worthwhile.


    I do use an FCB1010 with U4K. I have about 10 performances each with a different amp. Each performance has different settings for the amp.
    I play everything from blues, rockabilly, swing, surf etc While I don't use more than say..two or three performances in a gig, I pick them based upon what amp I want to play, so performance mode is the best for me.


    I'll try again after my Saturday gig and report back here.


    Gizmo

  • Hi CK
    I tweak DS to balance the "apparent" volume differences with a clean rig with gain set at 0 and with the same rig with gain over about 5.
    My DS settings range from mostly -7 to -11, with a couple at about -5
    CS settings typically +1 to +3
    I'm a clean to low gain player. My gain setting rarely goes over 4 or 5 and is usually around 2 or 3



    Why have you tweaked Distorted Sens?

  • CK -


    I have my Distortion Sense turned down, too.


    My Input Settings are locked at:
    Clean Sens 0.0db
    Distortion Sens -7.1db


    Most of my guitars have 1980s-style hot humbucking pickups in the bridge position. When I first got my KPA, none of the Factory Sounds sounded like the clips people had posted. None of the User Sounds sounded like the clips people had posted.


    I thought I would have to turn the Gain down on every Rig, but soon discovered I could turn down the Distortion Sense, and lock it. Instantly, the Factory Presets sounded like they were intended to sound, and so did the User Rigs.


    I *could* have adjusted the pickups on all my guitars, but I already had them volume and gain balanced for my other amps. It was much simpler to turn down one setting on the KPA.

  • I never touch the cleanor distrotion sense live, it's not midi controllable and would just slow down the show. I set them so that my loudest guitar doesn't clip and do all my adjustments from that point for each bank. I do agree that rigs for every guitar is a bit overboard for most situations. At one point I used one set of rigs for everything and just kept a clean boost as an open option in Slot X for single coils. Wonder if that's when I stopped sleeping as well at night.....

  • Same here, never touch the CS or DS live.
    In fact once I'm playing, I rarely touch the KPA at all, other than for the input preset and maybe the reverb mix.
    My brain prefers it this way.


    I never touch the cleanor distrotion sense live, it's not midi controllable and would just slow down the show. I set them so that my loudest guitar doesn't clip and do all my adjustments from that point for each bank. I do agree that rigs for every guitar is a bit overboard for most situations. At one point I used one set of rigs for everything and just kept a clean boost as an open option in Slot X for single coils. Wonder if that's when I stopped sleeping as well at night.....

  • I use DS a whole lot, too.


    FWIW, I'd be all against removing DS! In order to avoid misuses and confusion it would be enough to just not talk about it ;)
    By removing it, we'd just get a load of compliants from people unable to find their volume or tone balance... Just like today, with the difference that we would not know what to respond :D


    (Kidding... almost)

  • Hi CK
    I tweak DS to balance the "apparent" volume differences with a clean rig with gain set at 0 and with the same rig with gain over about 5.
    My DS settings range from mostly -7 to -11, with a couple at about -5
    CS settings typically +1 to +3
    I'm a clean to low gain player. My gain setting rarely goes over 4 or 5 and is usually around 2 or 3


    This balance should be easily created by using the cleans sens exclusively.