M Britt Kemper Profiles

  • But which speaker imprints do you use? The greenback imprint just doesn't sound anything like listening to the 69 cab from Britt.

    Ah, my apologies. I was responding about the 69 Marshall and overlooked the fact that you were wanting speaker imprint advice, so my comments aren't at all useful for you. Must learn to slow down and read the thread...

  • Chris Duncan No worries! Are you using monitor speakers only or do you use a real speaker cab?

    I use studio monitors for recording, and a Yamaha DXR-10 for playing live, so it's FRFR, not a traditional passive guitar cab like my Marshall 4x12 with V30s.


    Also, while I haven't done a comparison with my 4x12 in a year or two, your comment about Michael's speakers being broken in might be relevant as mine is 20 years old so I'm sure there's a difference. I just don't know how much. But it seems to me (and this might be a very uneducated statement) that there can be no such thing as a single "greenback" imprint that will sound like every greenback out there. Same with other speaker types. Plus, a greenback in what speaker cabinet enclosure? The cabinet also makes a significant contribution to the tone.


    Of course, I don't use speaker imprints so I could be completely full of it, I'm really just guessing here. But that's the problem with any emulation. Hard enough as it is to exactly reproduce a single entity. If the entity, in this case speakers that age, get broken in, etc., also has variables, which single variable / instance do you model with your imprint?


    Sounds like a pretty difficult cat to skin, made all the more challenging because you're trying to compare what you get standing on stage with how it sounds in the back of the room. Wish I could be more helpful in this area.

  • Cab structure has a ton to do with the sound being tight and focused, my bet it is that you are having a hard time with the 112 sounding as tight as the 412 greenbacks. A 112 will sound flubby and lack body compared to its 212 and 412 brethen. My only complain about the kabinet, its also it is MDF, I am not a fan, I always preffer plywood, it is more straightforward sounding. Maybe thats where the Kone isnt cutting it for you. It didnt for me, so I made a 212 with kones, sounds nicer.

  • Cab structure has a ton to do with the sound being tight and focused, my bet it is that you are having a hard time with the 112 sounding as tight as the 412 greenbacks. A 112 will sound flubby and lack body compared to its 212 and 412 brethen. My only complain about the kabinet, its also it is MDF, I am not a fan, I always preffer plywood, it is more straightforward sounding. Maybe thats where the Kone isnt cutting it for you. It didnt for me, so I made a 212 with kones, sounds nicer.

    I don't think it's about tightness and focus. It's speaker EQ. The greenback imprint makes the profile sound thin, tinny, harsh, like something digital. It's always hard to describe sound so you best try it out yourself to hear what I mean. When it comes to the cab I do think it often sounds boxy but that might be my inability to dial in the profiles.

  • I don't think it's about tightness and focus. It's speaker EQ. The greenback imprint makes the profile sound thin, tinny, harsh, like something digital. It's always hard to describe sound so you best try it out yourself to hear what I mean. When it comes to the cab I do think it often sounds boxy but that might be my inability to dial in the profiles.

    The kabinet sounds boxy, its not the kones fault, nor your fault. How does the V30 sounds on it to your opinon? It makes me courious as I find the V30 particularly harsh (the same as real ones), so maybe we can start from there. I will try it with the marshalls on the 2020 pack, with my 212 kone cab, and will let you know. As comparison, I have a Cabinet with a waza speaker, I expect to sound similar to it.

  • The kabinet sounds boxy, its not the kones fault, nor your fault. How does the V30 sounds on it to your opinon? It makes me courious as I find the V30 particularly harsh (the same as real ones), so maybe we can start from there. I will try it with the marshalls on the 2020 pack, with my 212 kone cab, and will let you know. As comparison, I have a Cabinet with a waza speaker, I expect to sound similar to it.

    Will check out the V30s with that particular profile tmrw and report back. In general I don't like that imprint. My favorite imprints are actually the Jensens at the moment. Most 3D. Never A/B compared Greenbacks and Jensens in real life so it might just be my taste. My other favorite profile is a Bassman and I get better results with the imprints although I change from the original P10 from the profile to a P12 imprint.


    I was thinking of another cab, especially interested in 2x12 open back since I mainly play Bassman, Bluesbreaker and similar amps. But everyone in this forum (especially Chris Kemper himself) are raving about how brilliant the Kabinet is, so I very much thought it's me dialling it in the wrong way.

  • I was thinking of another cab, especially interested in 2x12 open back since I mainly play Bassman, Bluesbreaker and similar amps. But everyone in this forum (especially Chris Kemper himself) are raving about how brilliant the Kabinet is, so I very much thought it's me dialling it in the wrong way.

    Its a cool cab, I dig it, but is still a 112 with all its caveats, I am a 212 guy, home, studio and stage (TT_TT if only there were gigs already...). Maybe it is just a bad synergy, I have high opinions on the kones, as I said in another post, I found the main difference is on the sound pressure and sound dispersion. Also, yes, the kone has more material on the treble side, sometimes it sounds a bit more HiFi-ish, so that might also be, but is not that big of a difference in my opinion.

  • Its a cool cab, I dig it, but is still a 112 with all its caveats, I am a 212 guy, home, studio and stage (TT_TT if only there were gigs already...). Maybe it is just a bad synergy, I have high opinions on the kones, as I said in another post, I found the main difference is on the sound pressure and sound dispersion. Also, yes, the kone has more material on the treble side, sometimes it sounds a bit more HiFi-ish, so that might also be, but is not that big of a difference in my opinion.

    I'm just wondering if the Kabinet isn't quite right for what I play. I'm into dirty blues rock, garage rock, broken down amps. I don't get that feeling from the Kabinet. Again, it might be that most of the music I like is played through 2x12 or 2x10/4x10 open back cabinets. If I understand correctly, closed 1x12 cabinets are mid heavy and most of my amp profiles are mid heavy too - and so is my P90 Les Paul. I realize that if I play something really clean on a hollow body guitar the Kabinet does better than with my Les Paul into gritty fuzz and old tweeds .

  • How does the V30 sounds on it to your opinon?

    I tried it and the V30 is okay but even a bit harsher than the greenback.

    I figured out that the greenback needs some added mids in the EQ and then the fizziness disappears. Might just be my guitar though. I do think this is just what greenbacks sound like, unfortunately I'm not able to compare it with real ones. They are maybe just a bit more low-fi sounding?

    In case of the greenbacks I also think that the sound I'd like to go for would probably require a bigger cabinet with an open back.

  • I do think this is just what greenbacks sound like, unfortunately I'm not able to compare it with real ones. They are maybe just a bit more low-fi sounding?

    In case of the greenbacks I also think that the sound I'd like to go for would probably require a bigger cabinet with an open back.

    I used to have a 1971 Marshall 412 cab with original Pre Rola Green backs. They were the 25w 55hz version (favoured by Hendrix, Kossof etc) with Pulstronic Cones (T1221 if I remember correctly but I could be wrong). Basically pretty much a holy grail cab in near mint condition although it was a slant cab and the straight version is the more desirable. Anyway, the bottom line is they were nice sounding speakers but nothing special so I sold it and bought a PrS with the proceeds. I sometimes wish I’d kept it but then I play my PRS DGT and realise ai’m fone with without it and the KPA sounds just as good.

  • it was a slant cab and the straight version is the more desirable

    Any idea what the logic is behind that market valuation?


    From what I heard, the slant cab was just cosmetic because back in the day Mr. Marshall wanted the head to look like it fit nicely on the cabinet. Does it actually affect the tone?

  • Any idea what the logic is behind that market valuation?


    From what I heard, the slant cab was just cosmetic because back in the day Mr. Marshall wanted the head to look like it fit nicely on the cabinet. Does it actually affect the tone?

    According to atleast Pete Thorn it sure does. That’ why he mics his slanted upside down (mic the speaker on bottom, but without floor reflection).

  • Any idea what the logic is behind that market valuation?


    From what I heard, the slant cab was just cosmetic because back in the day Mr. Marshall wanted the head to look like it fit nicely on the cabinet. Does it actually affect the tone?

    I believe you are correct about the reason it was designed that way. However, the different cabinet internal dimension is bound to have some effect on tone even if it wasn’t part of the design intent.


    I think the straight cabs are more desirable simply because they were favoured by some of the iconic players such as Kossof etc.

  • Straight ‘B’ cabs are rounder and fuller sounding.
    Angled ‘A’ cabs are tighter and tiny tiny bit more breath and high end.


    I have 10 Marshall 1960 cabs here in my live room of various types. Black Back 55hz, Green Back, Vintage 30 and G12 75’s

    5 are the B type and 5 are the A type.
    One of my favourites out of all of them, I have never looked to see what is in there and I don’t want to know. ?

    It’s pre JCM800. I suspect they are Black Back but someone could have swapped all the speakers out. Sounds really nice though with my Mesa Mk3 amps.

  • I've just had a chance to try A/B comparisons between the rigs yor were referring to using imprints and full range.


    To me the Imprint of the Greenback actually sounds better than the Full Range studio profile through the Kabinet but tone is clearly subjective.


    What you are hearing is almost certainly just the fact that imprints are intended to capture the sound of the "speaker" as if you were standing in front of it (NO MIC involved). However, the rig in the MBritt pack is a profile of the full signal chain including mics. What you are hearing in Michael's profile isn't his 25w Greenbacks but rather his Greenbacks through a mic. This is fundamentally different than standing in front of the speaker so it isn't surprising that the imprint sounds different.


    The difference between the imprint on stage and the studio profile going to FOH is really no different than the situation where you hear a valve amp on stage but the audience hear a valve amp being mic'ed out front through the PA. We never really worried about this in the old days when we were standing in front of our amps but even back then the onstage sound and FOH sound were different. The closest way to hear what the audience is hearing is to use FRFR speakers on stage and listen to the Studio profile. Imprints were created because some players don't like that sound though. It is always going to be a compromise and sometimes you need to choose the least worst option.

  • Hi Wheresthedug! I'm actually aware of things you mentioned here but it's a very good summary of things I still sometimes forget. In this particular situation though I found the difference between the profile and what the speaker produces bigger than with other profiles. I feel I have taught my ears a bit to understand what the sound differences are that I should expect. But again, there are profiles sounding closer comparing headphones/Kabinet output than this one. As I often say, it feels like it's a different EQ curve. Knowing how much people talk on the internet about old Greenbacks, new Greenbacks, broken in or not, Alnico or made in China - no two speakers will sound perfectly alike.


    All that being said, I changed the way I EQ now. With Marshall-like amps I now take out bass and add some mids to get back the bottom end. Knowing this is how many Marshalls got used in the past it actually made the Greenback imprint much softer to my ears (softer meaning less fizzy). Now I find the imprint fits well with the profile, only lacking some oomph (guess that's the Kabinet).


    I'm very interested: Do you have experience with a real Plexi and Greenbacks? How does the imprint compare to your ears?