Testing the waters on piracy protection....

  • Question, excuse me if this was stated by I didn't comprehend.


    Hypothetical: I buy commercial profiles, put them on my Kemper. I decide to sell that Kemper and get a Power Kemper. I sell it with the profiles.


    I keep a backup set of profiles and put them on my new Power Kemper.


    Have I violated the Profiler's policies? Should I have given up the right when I sold the profiles with the first Kemper? Or Kept them and wiped that KPA clean of the profiles before selling?


    This seems to be a grey area.

  • I still don't understand this - you all bought a device which can do a copy of an amp sound.
    Someone of you want to sell an amp sound but the amp is registered trademark. So you first copying someones work and you try to resell this behind a mic and other stuff setup? Double morality i think:D Or even triple if you think that you buy a kemper becouse you dont have to pay to this all amp producers for their hard work.
    I have an amp - i've buy it and i dont want to sell something that not belongs to me. I want a share with you how is my amp sounds:)


    The logic fallacy here is that "the amp is a registered trademark": it is not. You do not copy the amp, you copy a sound emitted by the amp. If you make a motorbike whose noise resembles that of a Harley Davidson, no one can claim you've broken a law: HD themselves tried hard, to no avail.


    Another example: you can make a recording of a Ferrari T40's noise and make a sample to create a groove you use in a record: Ferrari has no copyright on the sound of their engines.


    Apart from this, I strongly doubt that any amp can be copyrighted, since they have been copying each other since decades :)


    Anyway, when you buy a profile you do not buy "the sound": you pay for the work it took to make it.
    If sounds were to be paid for, any record should be subject to payments depending on how many and which sounds they use.



    Hypothetical: I buy commercial profiles, put them on my Kemper. I decide to sell that Kemper and get a Power Kemper. I sell it with the profiles.
    I keep a backup set of profiles and put them on my new Power Kemper.
    Have I violated the Profiler's policies? Should I have given up the right when I sold the profiles with the first Kemper? Or Kept them and wiped that KPA clean of the profiles before selling?
    This seems to be a grey area.


    You have violated the policy because now there are two copies of the same profile used by two different customers, and only one copy has been paid. Simple as that :)
    So you can go either way, as long as all the copies used by different customers have been paid for. Just like for any commercial computer app.

  • You have violated the policy because now there are two copies of the same profile used by two different customers, and only one copy has been paid. Simple as that :)
    So you can go either way, as long as all the copies used by different customers have been paid for. Just like for any commercial computer app.


    yes dad... ;)


    Thanks for the answer. It seems not so grey the way you put it, haha!


  • The logic fallacy here is that "the amp is a registered trademark": it is not. You do not copy the amp, you copy a sound emitted by the amp. If you make a motorbike whose noise resembles that of a Harley Davidson, no one can claim you've broken a law: HD themselves tried hard, to no avail.


    Agree:)
    What if you change Cab in the profile for another - and resell this profile? ;P

  • Rule of thumb: whatever way you take profit of someone else's work w/o agreeing with whatever rule they set in order for you to be entitled to using their work, is not ok ;)


    It's not what you change, it's that you couldn't have tweaked that profile w/o their work. If you used the cab alone it would be the same.
    It's like sampling a voice from a record and use it in your work.

  • ...also the problem is the definition of the data. For example reselling software is allowed by law in germany. If the company selling the software has registration based copy protection in place, they have to delete the registration for you to sell it. And the have to by law. The


    Amp Factory's terms might not even be valid in germany and other EU states that fall under the Schengen agreement... ?

  • I still don't understand this - you all bought a device which can do a copy of an amp sound.
    Someone of you want to sell an amp sound but the amp is registered trademark. So you first copying someones work and you try to resell this behind a mic and other stuff setup? Double morality i think:D Or even triple if you think that you buy a kemper becouse you dont have to pay to this all amp producers for their hard work.
    I have an amp - i've buy it and i dont want to sell something that not belongs to me. I want a share with you how is my amp sounds:)


    well, truth is you don't really profile the sound of the amp, but the entire chain.
    And the cab and ESPECIALLY the miking makes the biggest difference (just compare all the for example Rectifier profiles on RX, they all sound VERY different although it's the same amp), so what you're really profiling is engineering skills, or to be more specific the skills to set up and mic an amp.
    THAT creates a very unique sound that noone else can easily reproduce and it makes total sense to protect that.

  • I'm with Lasse on that. In my opinion it is pretty much the same than music. That is basically only a sound as well (also by using registered trademark amps and mics and console, ...) Nevertheless you pay for the work that went into the creative process of making and it is protected by copyright. And so should any kemper profile.


    But also: when I bought a CD and don't like it anymore - I can sell it!

  • But also: when I bought a CD and don't like it anymore - I can sell it!


    well, you can sell the Kemper too...the CD has the songs on it, the Kemper has the profiles on it.
    You can't sell the mp3 if you bought the download version of the albums though, and that's the closer analogy to profiles

  • I'd not agree on this. What matters is that every person having access to a song has paid for it. You can't sell the mp3s because you still have the original CD around, but you can destroy the CD and use the mp3s... and since you paid for it, you can sell it. Making multiple copies of any software is of course a different story.


    Also, we need rules for liquid music as well.


    :)

  • Well, that was in the old days... Nowadays most mp3 Versions are from a distributer like iTunes and there is no CD...


    The whole problem came with piracy. A long time ago you couldn't just copy CDs to a 100 thousand people. Maybe your friends would rip it for themselves and that's it. With high speed internet that became a whole new story and distributers had to fear for there income.


    Since then, there is a general distrust which is sad. There shouldn't be a difference between a CD and a MP3. When I bought it I should be able to sell it. Hypothetically when everybody was honest and deleted their copy of the mp3 when sold, that wouldn't bother anyone. Since content creators constantly live in shivering fear of someone breaking the copyright agreement and assume that there is no such thing like an honest consumer, that is not the case. A bit sad actually.

  • Well, that was in the old days... Nowadays most mp3 Versions are from a distributer like iTunes and there is no CD...


    The whole problem came with piracy. A long time ago you couldn't just copy CDs to a 100 thousand people. Maybe your friends would rip it for themselves and that's it. With high speed internet that became a whole new story and distributers had to fear for there income.


    Since then, there is a general distrust which is sad. There shouldn't be a difference between a CD and a MP3. When I bought it I should be able to sell it. Hypothetically when everybody was honest and deleted their copy of the mp3 when sold, that wouldn't bother anyone. Since content creators constantly live in shivering fear of someone breaking the copyright agreement and assume that there is no such thing like an honest consumer, that is not the case. A bit sad actually.


    Agree.

  • By the way - Lasse's profiles are my absolute favorites! I love them. I thing they are the best metal profiles out there to date.
    ...and they were free.


    Still I respect the copyright. Just because they were given to me doesn't mean that I am entitled to distribute them in any way. (KB comes to mind). I have the greatest respect for those creative people sharing there knowledge and talent with us. One should cherish that.

  • Stealing is stealing. Knock-offs are knock-offs. I don't think there's a moral standpoint that can argue the virtues of piracy in any way that's convincing to me. If we use the analogy of paying for someone's work rather than the final product, I think it gives rise to a situation where someone could complain that the work was sub-standard, etc, to justify piracy, as they do with music labels ("they make too much money"). Any excuse will do for a pirate.


    In such a situation, I think it would be best not to distinguish between the final product and the work put into it. The .kipr files created by a commercial profiler were intended for a single user and by duplicating it, you are effectively breaking your contract with him and they should have the right to deny you their future work at least, given that punitive action would be a difficult thing.


    Digitised things should have some store of value in the same way physical items do. It's like my CD collection. I should be able to sell them if I want to, as long as I am not indulging in unauthorised reproduction.

  • Digitised things should have some store of value in the same way physical items do. It's like my CD collection. I should be able to sell them if I want to, as long as I am not indulging in unauthorised reproduction.


    Yup, that's exactly my feeling about this. And the reason why I would like to sell my MW über pak to someone. Meaning ONE person and surrendering the product completely.