I think Commercial Profilers should be waiting for the new DI firmware............

  • its not only good for people that use real cabs. This makes every profile usable, if you dont like the micing - pick one of your favourite merged cabs! Not like before including Amp colour...pure cabs!


    This :)


    It's not just a matter of finding a good-sounding profile, the new FW allos to try real cabs(+mic) with real amps.

  • I think Commercial Profilers should be waiting for the release of the new Firmware before making any new Packs.


    Yeah, I know it's Christmas and all, but I think (IMO) any future commercial packs HAVE to be made using DI/Load Box & Mic'd Cab.


    What you all think?


    Yup, going forward for sure. However, many of us don't just do a commercial pack and then put it up on our websites while the profiles are still wet... :) I have about three that haven't been done in the 'new way' and I'm going to release them soon. All were borrowed amps so I don't have them here to profile in the 'new way' and also one was done at considerable expense at a pro recording studio.


    Since I use my Kemper the same way you guys do - for recording and live and for fun - I would want my profiles to reflect/use any new tech advances as much as you do! :)

  • Is this really the case? It seems to me that there would be inevitable flaws in letting the Kemper decide at which point the amp ends and cab begins, but if you have personally tried taking different profiles where only the cab changes and compared them with cabs turned off and found the difference to be non existent I'd be interested to know. Proper cab separation makes sense if playing with IR's and swapping other pure cab profiles is something the user wanted to do with a degree of accuracy


    Well it depends on how you are creating profiles. For my part, i like to set an amp to its sweet spot and only keep the variations in the cab section. This means you will have like 20 profiles that sound totally different over an FRFR but completely the same when using only the DI. Doesn´t make much sense in this case.


    Other profilers keep the miking constant and only change the amp settings. In this case the new profile format makes much more sense.

  • I've updated my brains firmware. :)


    After giving it some thought I'm wrong in saying Commercial Profilers should wait for the new firmware before making new Profile packs.
    Obviously not, take the M.Britt Profiles as an example.
    Michael's Profiles are basically designed to sound great through the FOH when playing live, but of course we know they sound great recorded as well.


    However, it would be nice if commercial Profilers include a few DI Profiles using the new firmware (when it officially releases) in their future Profile packs.


    Only time will tell, you can bet Kemper themselves will release some DI Profiles after the new Firmware releases and if there's a demand for DI I think Commercial Profilers will have to jump on the bandwagon.

  • Yes im ready, but still wairting for FW 3.0 - i have time :thumbsup: BTW what about some old vintage amps (combo) where you cant put DI box between amp and cab? Ha? Yes, you can always profile "old way" but Unfortunately, people act schemes: new=better, expensive = better etc...


    Stay Metal!

  • For me the original idea of the OP is true. DI profiles sound so much more in the face, so much more, that i really wonder
    how we could achieve good results before OS 3. okay i have only 3 amps, but the difference to the better is more than 40% IMHO, but that's only me.
    You can still add any speakers, your own or others, and in the merged profile you have it all --- separated.


    But as a matter of fact: with one exception (Guido) i have bought ONLY DI profiles in the last year. [and now i even sell 'em ...}




    cheers

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

  • The art of capturing a great guitar sound is not to use a DI - everybody with access to that amp can do this.


    This helps only for one case - using a poweramp with guitar speaker after the profiler.
    Then it may sound like the real amp - in case you use the same poweramp, spreaker and cabinet.
    (when you profile the preamp only).


    Or you need a linear power amp and the same speaker and cabinet.
    (when profiling preamp and power amp).


    All this must be done with every profile - so you have to change the speaker and cabinet for each profile of a different amp/speaker.
    If you don't do so then it sounds similar to using different amps with the same speaker and cabinet.
    e.g. a Fender profile will surely sound strange if you use a DI profile and then a V30 cabinet.


    And what is the advantage of having about the same sound via a Kemper-Poweramp-Speaker instead of the RealAmp-Speaker?
    It's only more complicated.


    In the end of the day is the goal to record this great sound or send it to the PA - for both do we NOT need a DI profile.


    To take full advantage of profiles from different amps and speaker - there is only one way.
    You need a full studio profile and then a FRFR system.


    You may say - yes, but then give us a 'Merged' Profile - then we have the best of both world.
    We would not have!
    In order to create a great complete (studio) profile - the amp may be setup different compared to the setup when used next to you.
    E.g. the tone controlls may be setup in a different way to compensate some speaker/mic coloring - so in the end we get a great sounding complete profile - and a bad sounding DI profile.


    IMHO is the best way to use FRFR all the time - and for the few who believe they need a real guitar speaker instead of a monitor - use the Kemper CabDriver to get a good enough sound via your speaker - you may not even notice the difference when you play in full volume if you would compare to a 'DI Profile'.
    But your audience will get the real sound!

    (All trademarks are trademarks of their respective owners, which are in no way associated or affiliated with soundside.de)


    Great Profiles --> soundside.de

    Edited 2 times, last by Armin ().

  • Imo the way to go for (commercial) profilers is to eventually only produce Merged profiles, the combination of a Direct amp profile and the speaker/mic part of a Studio profile that was profiled afterwards with the same settings. This way both the amp and speaker/mic get authenticated. People using their own power amp + guitar speaker setup can use the Direct amp part and ignore the speaker/mic bit. All other users can use the full Merged profile, and even have the option to authentically change to speaker/mic captures from other Merged profiles.

  • @Armin, well spoken!! :-)


    Speaking for myself I use Vintage 30’s to drive my Peavey JSX or some other tubeamps (just the power amp) with the Kemper and it sounds really great this way. I know this colors the sound a bit but it still sounds very great on stage. So why I shouldn't use this combination?


    And btw when I play live I only use different profiles of just one amp (maybe two). Because always changing amps with complete eq settings during a show will drive every mixing guy just crazy. So this doesn't makes sense to me at all.


    My studio partner and I experimented with direct profiles too but we find out that specially with refining (we always spend a lot of time with the feature to get as close as possible to the real amp, !!!) we’re getting some problems. Because then we have to do a whole new set up: Kemper to digital power amp to cabinet while comparing this to the real amp (miked up for studio profiles) connected to another cabinet. And always switching between these gears to check if we have the best profiling result. And always running to the recoding room and the monitor room back and forth. :-D So this would take a lot more time and I’m sure no one of the other sellers really does this too. And at the end the result of the direct profiles wouldn't be close enough.
    But one thing you can be sure : our studio profiles sound exactly the same like the amps in our studio, no compromise at all.
    As Armin said already the cab driver is close enough to separate the amp from the speaker.
    I have the feeling that Kemper is marketing this Di profiling feature only just to have something new but it isn't really necessary to create a good sound. Maybe I'm wrong here.


    So, no at the moment we have no plan to do Di profiles I’m sorry ;-)

  • - Refining is done in 20 seconds...
    - refining more than 20 seconds...doesn´t make the profile better/closer
    - you don´t have to A/B a direct amp profile...you can refine it blind.
    - With newer firmwares the kemper is much faster in the refining process.
    - If its not close after 20 seconds - the problem is something different or the Kemper simply can´t get closer
    Don´t otherthink specific stuff :)


    no one is forced to use that feature...different approaches..thats all and fine :)


    But i think more than 60% still don´t get the benefits of merged profiles or understand what really happens while you merge a cabinet
    and how it has to be done proper.



    I asked often for it...but its really time for a official tutorial video. Because me and others are bored of explaining it million times to the people
    or reading wrong advices like "oh just copy the cab of any profile you like and press merge to the DI profiles"


    Overall..this thread is pretty old..and its to late to discuss the main topic now anyway :)
    Everyone made his decision back the time - do i use the new feature or not
    There is not right or wrong...


    no go on and play guitar :)

  • If you wnna have an authentic snapshot of the real amp you need a several refining processes (all across the fretboard!) and always a comparison between so with a blind Di profiling this wouldn't work relly good to get this authentic snapshot. this is our experiment thru many sessions!.
    Soemthing I wanna add too because some guys think that profiling is something everybody could do at home to( of course you could but not as good as in a professional studio)
    you need some things like:


    1. A a really good Hiclass studio with several different mikes and a good mixing desk
    2. A great sound engineer with lots of experience of guitar recordings
    3. time, time, time to compare your results
    4. a good versatile guitar player who's knows about amps & guitars
    5. Recoding good sounds samples
    6.Time to label all theses tags in the profile
    6.a professional website to market your product :-)


    just my two cents
    :-D
    maybe a mod could move this thread :-)


  • Wrong. Anybody can make profiles that's the beauty of it. Only difference will be in result of course. You don' need all that stuff you pointed out. Kemper knows it and we all know it! But I do agree that you should play all around the fretboard while refining to get close as possible!


    People like to believe that there's magic behind it but there's not. Manual explains it all very clearly!

  • Yes, you can hear the different concepts on rm. Many gems there but also a lot of crappy profiles. So finaly there must be a big difference in profiling technic.
    My concept:
    Lazy waiting for new gems from all the outstanding guys ( commercial or free ones) :P