Have amps, will profile the BE100: Lets make some profiles...

  • HAWP-39 profiles are up.


    This session is really just an experiment, I am redoing the HAWP-16 profiles with a Royer R121 in place of the Audio Technica AT4040.


    I decided to make a recording to compare the different mic EQ settings (see below), it should be noted that the recording doesn't completely show the difference between each take, in the room while playing the profiles the difference seems greater.


    EDIT: After listening to the processed MP3 recording linked below it really doesn't show the difference between each take, you really need to load the profiles and hear them for yourself with your monitor and guitar :)


    EDIT #2: I didn't realize this, but in the HAWP-16 ReadMe.txt file I didn't list the option switch settings on the amp, this is important because the SAT switch was on which makes a big difference. I have updated the ReadMe.txt file in the original folder.


    Here is the recording: https://soundcloud.com/tim-owens-2/hawp-39-test
    There is also a WAV file of the recording in the folder which can be found here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cqi…3LCavaywIIB6i4Jcbe8a?dl=0


    Here are the notes from the ReadMe.txt file:
    ===============================================================================================
    HAWP-39
    8/30/2015


    This session is an experiment.
    In this session I am reprofiling the original HAWP-16 BE-6 M75 profile with a Shure SM57 and a Royer R121,
    the original was made with a Shure SM57 and a Audio Technica AT4040.


    When I first did the new profile with the R121 it didn't sound very good so I tried a few different EQ settings, here are the results.


    In the original we had the following:
    Shure SM57 & Audio Technical AT4040.
    SM57 was 2" from the front of the speaker frame, 1/2 inch from the edge of the dome, angle = 0deg, level = 0dB.
    AT4040 was 2" from the front of the speaker frame, 1" from the edge of the dome, angle = 0deg, level = -5dB, Treble = -5 (on the mixer).
    Mic's were ran into an Allen Heath Mix Wizard 16:2 and then into the KPA.


    In the new profiles I used the same mic positions and adjusted the EQ on the mixer.
    NOTE: I use a jig to position the mic's so the positions should be really close to the original.


    Here are the file names and what they mean:


    HAWP39 BE6 M75a (This is a copy of the original HAWP-16 BE5 M75 profile, it is our reference).


    HAWP39 BE6 M75b (This profile was made by simply replacing the AT4040 with the R121, the mic positions and EQ's were the same).


    HAWP39 BE6 M75C (For this profile I enabled the high pass filter on both mic channels of the mixer. From the manual "This attenuates
    frequencies below 80Hz by 12dB per octave").


    HAWP39 BE6 M75d (Same as c execpt that I also turned the bass down on each mic channel to -3dB. From the manual "Shelving, +/-15dB, 80Hz".


    HAWP39 BE6 M75e (Same as d except that I also turned the treble down on the SM57 mic channel to -3dB. From the manual "Shelving, +/-15dB, 12kHz".


    This is the first HAWP session where I have included a test recording.
    To make the recording I recorded a loop in my RP1000 and let it play back as I selected each profile.
    The recording starts with the HAWP39 BE6 M75a profile and then the HAWP39 BE6 M75b profile, and then the HAWP39 BE6 M75c profile, etc.


    It should be noted that while listening to the profiles live in the room using a CLR monitor
    that the differences between the profiles is more apparent than what you will hear in the recording sample.
    For the best results you should probably load the profiles into your KPA and test them for yourself.
    ===============================================================================================

  • Tim spoils us rotten!


    Thanks Tim. Can't wait to try these out tomorrow.


    Haha, thanks!


    If these profiles give you an idea of something that you want to try please let me know. I have an idea what I want to try next but I'm always open to suggestions so just let me know and we'll make it happen.

  • HAWP39 BE6 M75C (For this profile I enabled the high pass filter on both mic channels of the mixer. From the manual "This attenuates
    frequencies below 80Hz by 12dB per octave").


    Liked this one best. There's added fatness and meat, but still clear without excess low end rumble. Interesting to hear any next steps. Great stuff! :thumbsup:


  • Liked this one best. There's added fatness and meat, but still clear without excess low end rumble. Interesting to hear any next steps. Great stuff! :thumbsup:


    Thanks for your feedback, I appreciate it. Personally, I'm leaning more towards HAWP39 BE6 M75d. Let me know if you want a set of profiles with the HAWP39 BE6 M75C or if you want to try something else while I'm in profiling mode :)


    As far as "next steps", I'm thinking about picking up a Petersen 212 cab http://www.thegearpage.net/boa…rizontal-212-new.1603591/.
    I have the Legacy 412 cabs and I have a couple of Avatar Vintage 112 cabs that I really like but I've never tried a 212 cab and the Petersen looks really nice, I'm curious how one would work for profiling. Has anyone compared 112, 212 and 412 cabs while profiling?


    Anyone else have any feedback on this experiment?

  • As far as "next steps", I'm thinking about picking up a Petersen 212 cab http://www.thegearpage.net/boa…rizontal-212-new.1603591/.
    I have the Legacy 412 cabs and I have a couple of Avatar Vintage 112 cabs that I really like but I've never tried a 212 cab and the Petersen looks really nice, I'm curious how one would work for profiling. Has anyone compared 112, 212 and 412 cabs while profiling?


    Anyone else have any feedback on this experiment?


    Hi Tim,


    Excellent question, and one I have been wondering about myself, as of late.


    I never quite understood why a different cab arrangement (using identical speakers) would yield different IRs / cabinet profiles, when in the vast majority of cases, the mic'ing is performed on just one 12" speaker in the cabinet (e.g., a 2x12 or a 4x12). Assuming that the mic(s) are placed within a few inches of the speaker, and the IR / cabinet profile does not take into account room reflections/reverberations...what is it about the cabinet enclosure, exactly, that contributes to the variance in the mic'd and recorded sound?


    I suppose I could understand how an open-back enclosure would have a different frequency response versus a closed-back enclosure. However, all things being equal, what are the other factors?

  • Cabinets with multiple speakers introduce the possibility of comb filtering or partial phase cancellation, as some signal from the adjacent speaker(s) hits the mic at a slightly delayed time in relation to the signal coming from the speaker one is micing. That's one reason. The shape and volume of the cabinet internally (ie size) contributes a lot to the sound, as does the materials used. In fact, pretty much every factor has an influence on the resonance and subsequent tone that the speaker reproduces. Granted, the differences will be smaller the closer the mic is to the speaker itself in a lot of cases, but will still be there.


  • Cabinets with multiple speakers introduce the possibility of comb filtering or partial phase cancellation, as some signal from the adjacent speaker(s) hits the mic at a slightly delayed time in relation to the signal coming from the speaker one is micing. That's one reason. The shape and volume of the cabinet internally (ie size) contributes a lot to the sound, as does the materials used. In fact, pretty much every factor has an influence on the resonance and subsequent tone that the speaker reproduces. Granted, the differences will be smaller, the closer the mic is to the speaker itself in a lot of cases, but will still be there.


    Hi Sambrox,


    Indeed, thank you for that reply. I wasn't thinking about the constructive/destructive interference that would be introduced by the additional speaker(s).


    Cheers,
    John

  • Dont think just in terms on outside the speaker cab. The air inside the cab also matters and is pushing against the back side of those speakers. A 4x12 has greater distance between the diagonally aligned speakers, which creates a different comb filter effect and resonances.

  • Dont think just in terms on outside the speaker cab. The air inside the cab also matters and is pushing against the back side of those speakers. A 4x12 has greater distance between the diagonally aligned speakers, which creates a different comb filter effect and resonances.


    Exactly - the air in the cab is working like a big spring which is compressed by the rearward phase of the speakers oscillations. The properties of that spring vary according to the cab volume, whether it is ported or open at the back and how resonant the cabinet walls are. All these parameters are going to have effects on the behaviour of your driver cone - eg bigger cab volume and more massive ply case are going to give you more bass extension and deeper resonances.

  • Ok, so I'm late to the party . I stumbled upon this thread last night after visiting the forum after a long layoff and I am truly blown away by the amount of work Tim put into this let alone the fact that he gave this away for free. After I read the whole thread I saw that Meambobbo hosted everything and posted a link, so I downloaded the profiles and had a ball checking them out last night.
    I just wanted to
    thank to everyone involved with this. I also wanted to mention that Meamboobo and I must like the same types of reverb and delay lol. I downloaded some of his tweaked patches and they were almost spot on to what I would go for!
    Cheers everyone !!



    Ralph

  • Ok, so I'm late to the party . I stumbled upon this thread last night after visiting the forum after a long layoff and I am truly blown away by the amount of work Tim put into this let alone the fact that he gave this away for free. After I read the whole thread I saw that Meambobbo hosted everything and posted a link, so I downloaded the profiles and had a ball checking them out last night.
    I just wanted to
    thanks to everyone involved with this. I also wanted to mention that Meamboobo and I must like the same types of reverb and delay lol. I downloaded some of his tweaked patches and they were almost spot on to what I would go for!
    Cheers everyone !!



    Ralph


    Yeah some of his ice style delays and bloom reverbs are as close to something from a strymon we will get till the delay and reverb section gets an upgrade.


    Tim put a ridiculous amount of time and effort into this project especially for some of my requests. Pure gentleman.