DI-Box recommendation for firmware 3.0

Just ordered the "official" Kemper DI!!!

How did you do it?

Simply: write an email to Kemper online store...

Thanks. I did it yesterday and I'm waiting for their reply.

Still waiting.

Hey, I'm new here and awaiting my newly purchased Kemper to arrive. I'm looking to get a DI box for my profiling needs and after reading all 9 pages of this thread, I have one main question: if I have a DI box that will handle speaker level loads, but doesn't quite reach the -30db to -40db attenuation, can I use the Shure A15AS to help in that matter?

http://www.shure.com/americas/…ine-switchable-attenuator

http://www.amazon.com/Shure-A1…-1&keywords=shure+xlr+pad

Has anyone direct profiled using an amp's SLAVE OUT jack?
My Mark V has one and states in the manual "provides a signal derived from the speaker jack". (Not a pre-amp signal).

Works on my triple rectifier.

I would love to hear more responses about sound quality differences. In particular passive vs active. Passive would be using a transformer to step down the the signal and be considered analogue and maybe even an improvement. Depends on quality of transformer. Which who knows.. Active uses circuitry to step down signal... All color signal to some degree as pointed out. I'm most curious about any passive di with switchable cab sim... Red box always seems to have some simulation...

I know it's an old thread, but regardless, here's my response:

Quote from tntent

I would love to hear more responses about sound quality differences. In particular passive vs active. Passive would be using a transformer to step down the the signal and be considered analogue and maybe even an improvement. Depends on quality of transformer. Which who knows.. Active uses circuitry to step down signal... All color signal to some degree as pointed out. I'm most curious about any passive di with switchable cab sim... Red box always seems to have some simulation...

I went with a Radial JDI for this very reason. Passives have more of a "real" feel to them if they are clipped, whereas actives sound, at least to my ears, like putting a hard limiter on a signal. The Jensen transformer in it is super clean and transparent, but I feel like there may be a slight low-end boost and roundness to it. It's very pleasant and, honestly, a welcome addition. I probably would have gone for a lower-end DI, but I needed something to serve many different cases - this will handle speaker-level signals, stereo to mono summing to XLR, and has good pads and polarity options. It's pricy, but I'd rather spend $200 on one of these than $50 on one and then find I'm ill-prepared later on, then have two boxes sitting around collecting dust when not in use.

As far as cab sims are concerned, if you really want the best out there, you need to look at Torpedo's line of stuff. It is all pricy, and it is rack-based and active, but you'll never feel like you're lacking for options. The Red Box is a great piece of gear, but you'll need to spend some time tweaking it to get the sound you want. I've seen demo videos, particularly one from Guitarist magazine, where they basically rip it a new one by plugging it in, turning on the sim, and comparing the sound to a Vox AC-15, with zero representation of the settings on the Red Box. It doesn't match at all. But I've heard other demos of the Red Box, especially those built into the fantastic H&K amps (man... TriAmps... I wish there were more profiles of this amp out there), and they sound wonderful. It's a good option, but for 3.0 Direct Profiles, you should turn them off.

I also don't think the Red Box acts as a load box, so you'd still need to plug in a speaker.

red box is a load box but unfortunately cab sim can't be turned off completely hoping there is a great dual duty di

Quote from dougc84

I also don't think the Red Box acts as a load box, so you'd still need to plug in a speaker.

You are right.
The Red Box needs a speaker plugged in, last time I checked

I've yet to find one that can do profiles and serve as a foh connection for my actual tube amp with cab sim that's passive.. Seems the Behringer ultra g is the only one like this ?

Quote from tntent

I've yet to find one that can do profiles and serve as a foh connection for my actual tube amp with cab sim that's passive.. Seems the Behringer ultra g is the only one like this ?

Cab simulation is a complicated process - from a pure computing standpoint, it's a series of EQ curves, HF/LF filters, boosts (gain), and cuts (also gain). While this can be done in the passive world (Behringer is doing it), it's much easier to get a good sound in the active world. Give the Behringer a shot - their stuff isn't built the sturdiest in the world, but it works. But I feel like you're not going to be happy with the outcome, as so many more variables can be computed by a small microcontroller.

I re-read this entire thread. I also read the latest version (3.0) of the profiling guide. There is still little information there on the technical requirements of the DI required to make Direct Amp Profiles.

I am considering the Two Notes Torpedo Reload for my studio. It could replace my Radial JDV and X-Amp. I have seen Pete Thorn's video on it and it seems to be a really good solution for re-amping. I like the Match feature that gets the live guitar input level equal to the recorded track you want to re-amp. And the DI quality is top notch.

The free Wall Of Sound plugin that comes with the Reload can also be used to add cab IRs with the KPA. That's a nice bonus.

With it's ability to do reactive load attenuation at 4, 8, or 16 ohms, Reload is a no-brainer for me.

I am also hoping it can be a good load box for Direct Amp profiling. In an earlier post in this thread, Toneclone said that," ... the results are awesome so far". That is encouraging. I have also seen a few others with Torpedo Live models say they do the job. They use the same load box technology.

Quote from paults

CK indicated a "dummy load" box could not be used to create an accurate Direct Profile. The poweramp signal must pass through the chosen DI box to a speaker load to enable the KPA to create a Direct Profile.

Given that the Reload has a through connection for a speaker, on its face, it should work just fine. However, I wonder if the amp / cab interaction might be cut when using the Reload's Load Box output. Having read the Reload owner's manual, it indicates that it makes no difference to operation of the Reload whether you connect or do not connect a speaker. This directly implies that there is no interaction between the amp and speaker when Reload is connected between them.

So I fear that this amp / speaker interaction would be lost when creating a DAP. Anyone here have any thoughts on this?

I may need to spend more to get the Kemper DI. Bummer.

I think I may have the answer to my above post's query. If I am correct, the Reload will work fine with DAP.

The speaker connection is only required to make the amp react to it in a normal way. There is nothing at all in a DAP capture that involves the speaker. It is capturing only an amp which is behaving as if it were connected to a cab.

Anyone care to comment and/or correct me?

Most of this thread is chinese to me. For a start i have chosen the Samson S-Direct aktive DI-Box.
Now problems already start for a noobie. The "Balanced Output" goes to the XLR of the KPA which i used before for the Microphone. Right? Okay.

I know it is a stupid question, but could someone tell me which cable EXACTLY goes to where. "Input" of the Samson goes to ...??????
"Output Link" goes to ...?
I do not want -- in any case -- ruin my plexi. And which cable would be perfect for this kind of endeavour?

Thank you very much indeed.

have read the manual which says: Use a speaker cable to connect the speaker output of your reference amp to the speaker input of the DI box. • Use another speaker cable to connect the speaker bypass output of the DI box to your speaker cabinet. but names are different here, just to make sure i do not mix it up.

Quote from scratch17

I think I may have the answer to my above post's query. If I am correct, the Reload will work fine with DAP.

The speaker connection is only required to make the amp react to it in a normal way. There is nothing at all in a DAP capture that involves the speaker. It is capturing only an amp which is behaving as if it were connected to a cab.

Anyone care to comment and/or correct me?

Unfortunately, your original suspicion was correct. It WON'T capture the interaction between the amp and cab, which is one of the missing links in other load box applications, and is also the main selling point of FW3.0, DAP and Merged profiles.

OK. I believe I may have gotten a handle on this.

Sambrox wrote:

Quote

Unfortunately, your original suspicion was correct. It WON'T capture the interaction between the amp and cab, which is one of the missing links in other load box applications, and is also the main selling point of FW3.0, DAP and Merged profiles.

Based on the following info, I confirmed that Sambrox was correct.

I reached out to Andy (sysexguy on Gearslutz), the North American Distributor for Two Notes. He kindly replied with the following:

Quote

Is the profiling the only application in which you would see a Reload in your set-up? If so, the load is very transparent however the amp's output transformer is not seeing the physical speaker in any way. In contrast, the Torpedo models with speaker emulation integrated have a "Thru" output jack that simply taps the speaker line and the amp is entirely seeing the speaker. In fact, in this mode, the loadbox impedance is ignored. It would be possible to pass a direct signal however the output passes through the Torpedo's digital converter.

There is one exception which is the early version of Studio, the VB-101. This unit has a thru which bypasses the loadbox and has a pre a/d direct output. Because the loadbox is bypassed, you can use any impedance as long as the amp and speaker are matched. This box is discontinued, we do have a demo and there are usually units on ebay and Reverb if that is of interest.

From the Profiling Manual (V3.0):

Quote

(Doing a DAP) requires you to tap the sound where it is about to hit the speaker cabinet. This tap is the speaker out-
put, where high voltage and high wattage occur, meaning you will need a dedicated DI box for this purpose.
This specialized DI box is capable of scaling down the voltage to a line-level signal, suitable for the Profiler, on a XLR
output jack. The high-power signal is forwarded to the speaker cabinet through a different output jack.

The actual hardware requirement to do a DAP is a splitter. with different power output on each side of the split. It must provide a line level signal on one side of the split. This side is used to feed the KPA's input. The load presented to the amp must be the same dynamic load created when connecting a cab directly to the amp. So the box must direct all of the power from the amp output except the split-off line level power to the speaker level side. The splitter should be as invisible as possible to the amp / speaker loading as possible.

Again, I quote the Profiling manual:

Quote

we recommend that you don’t use any kind of power-soaks or power-attenuators, either as a substitute for, or in addition to,
the DI box and true speaker. Those devices work mostly with simple resistors, which might inhibit the desired impedance interactions, thereby
resulting in an inauthentic profile.

There is a direct implication in the above recommendation from Kemper. Inserting any load box into
the equation, whether it is resistive or reactive, will by definition alter the interaction between amp and speaker.
Therefore, to capture a DAP of a tube amp running with the volume set high, it is going to be as loud as if you were
creating a standard profile.

The terminology confusion in the profiling Manual is somewhat understandable. The term D.I. is somewhat context dependent.

My Radial JDV is referred to as a D.I. by Radial. It also splits the signal, with differing levels on each side of the split. However, it's mic level side is actually meant to be connected to either a mic input on a console or recording interface. The other side of the split goes to the guitar amp input. That side of the split is meant to maintain the guitar level Hi-Z output from a guitar's pickups. As it turns out, it too is actually a splitter.

So, for doing DAP and Merged profiles, I give up. I will contact Kemper support and order one of their "specialized D.I." boxes.

Or you could just check this thread.