Normalizer

  • A problem on so many Multieffectunits the some amps are louder than others and live it`s so annoying.... the solution would be a normalizer to make every amp evenly loud ...


    a internal test signal that goes through every amp und normalises the amp volume to, let`s say, 0 db or minus 3 ... that would take a few minutes but it would be awesome

  • This has been discussed a few times already.
    When you have set clean sens correctly most amps are already levelled near perfection (I know the factory rigs are).
    Take these as a reference and level by ear which is far more accurate than any automatic normalizing procedure which would most likely introduce some sort bof compression or limiting and therefore would also alter the raw sound.

  • you mean the input clean sens? hmmm i`ll check it out but i don`t have any factory rigs on my kemper ... so volume wise it`s a mess ... sometimes
    the normalizing implies that it has no compression i only sets the volume of the amp profile automaticly to a the point where it reaches 0db ...


  • the normalizing implies that it has no compression i only sets the volume of the amp profile automaticly to a the point where it reaches 0db ...


    In this case the perceived loudness would not even be in the same ballpark with different rigs.
    With the normalizing procedure that you describe which is often used in DAW's and mastering plugins you only inflate the waveform until transients hit 0 dB.
    A clean sound will, because of much spikier transients, reach 0dB quite early, but will contain much less energy and perceived loudness than a distorted sound with its inherent compression.
    So in summary the method you demand for levelling rigs would be completely useless for this task. ;)

  • God i hate the blinking smiley :D ... try it inside cubase with a recorded clean and overdrive sound, that method works ... if you have a clean part in a song it tends to have more highs and when the distorted part kicks in it has to be louder to be direct enough because distorted signals are more focused and compressed, know what i mean ... but do you really recommend dail every profile in by ear if you have about 500 profiles on the amp ... even the eleven rack has a normalising function it`s not perfect but it`s faster and a better starting point then tweaking around in every profile

  • I volume balance just the ones I use live.


    I don't volume balance any of the others - if I am going to use them in a recording, I'll be mixing them, anyway.


    Exactly. On my profiler only the rigs I'm using in performances are levelled. And it's easy to do.
    Take a random rig from the factory content as a reference. They are already very balanced.

  • These feature requests are really productive here "hey built in a normalizer like in the elevenrack" -> "do it by ear" ... :D I do that in the moment too but it would save time and is VERY easy to do for a programmer to make the Normaizing feature.

  • I volume balance just the ones I use live.


    I don't volume balance any of the others - if I am going to use them in a recording, I'll be mixing them, anyway.


    I do the same, too.

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  • This is difficulty problem because :
    - If you play with dynamic / low compressed rigs - some notes played hard may be too loud or may find that after normalization low volume notes are at very low volumes


    How do you want to normalize? Normalization is taking some value of loudness (dB dbA ) from some time period. How long the time period must be?


    Compare it to watching a movie with commercials:) they both has different dynamics - and commercials are always louder then the movie - even when the dB meter showing the same.


    It will always depend how you are play (low or high dynamics)/ or rigs with you are play (distorted or clean).


    If you want to normalize - then use compression and limiter as last FX.
    Limiter in KPA? That will be good feature request:)


    Another way is this :
    1. to put the "normalize" option to the rig menu - with some dB frequency weights and as parameter will be the reference loudness over the spectrum
    2. if you hit the normalize in the rig menu the KPA - you have to play your song as usual for some time(?)
    3. the KPA will analyze the spectrum with weights over the time and add a correction to the desired loudness level.
    4. you have to store the rig.

  • +1 to Damian.


    However, I think normalizing function is not possible in usual ways. Because changing loudness means applying compressor / multiband dynamics or limiter which changes "sound" of the original rig. Better or worse, but different. Also, this request is maybe one of the most hardworking projects for the KPA team.


    When I think about "normalizing" rigs , somehow it leads me to KPA's profiling algoritm. And if it is possible to normalize all the rigs in the future I think it should be done inside the KPA. Maybe an additional post analyzing algoritm to profiling would be successful. Or, after profiling in the refining process it should be a standart(referance) behaviour that finalizes the profiling.


    I wish "normalizing" was possible. Anyway, I love my KPA! :thumbup:

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  • A normalizer that will not impact the sound is a very simple algorithm - it goes through the entire recorded bit, looks for the highest amplitude peak and levels the entire thing so that the peak hits top volume.
    Naturally, as it has to scan the pre-recorded bit, it can't be done in real-time.
    There is an automatic normalizer in the Kemper and it sets the volume at the profiling stage, presumably based on the volume of the whole 'landing spaceship' ceremony.
    The rest should be done by ear.


    As previously stated, perceived volume isn't volume per-se. It depends on your monitoring environment, your ears, your guitar - it is very difficult, from a technical standpoint, to speak about the perceived volume of content that is potentially this different (clean vs. distorted, definition at 10 vs. definition at 0 etc).


    I strongly recommend going through all your profiles manually, regardless. Choose a reference volume to compare it to and do it over time, but do it nonetheless.

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  • What you need is a loudness meter. Some DAWs already have them built-in but there are lots of 3rd party plugins available as well.
    These meters do require to learn a bit how to use them but they are very helpful tools to "level" signals - not based on signal amplitude peaks but based on loudness perception. Actually they are required tools now, at least in the european broadcast industy.

  • ... i have already mentioned, the the eleven rack has this function, and i had the eleven rack... and it made work just easier ... there were still volume differences but not no peak was above 0db ... it saves time and when you try your kemper with profiles you normally not use in a music store for example ... you don`t run into the problem that a profile will load that is way too loud ...