Kemper KPA vs. Axe-FX II (Yes, another one...please read!)

Good for you to finally have made a choice mbrown3! Now go buy one, have fun and make great music!

Well according to mbrown3 latest post he hasn't made a decision at all

Quote from TheLightspeeder

Well according to mbrown3 latest post he hasn't made a decision at all

Really? it was pretty clear to me that he decided to get a kemper and an axe8 if they don't set a way too distant release date. Otherwise he's going to get the axe 2 (or at least that's what i got from reading his conclusion). Nothing wrong about that, and he's saying exactly what everyone seems to know for a fact: if you need effects? axe, if you want more accurate tone with a bit more responsiveness? kemper.

(Not that i care to defend him tho, but his decision was pretty clear to me :D)

That's funny...again here's an excerpt of his conclusion

"So, at this point unless I hear that the AX8 won’t be out for two years or something, I’ll probably wait for that to release. If it is going to be a while before it comes out, then I’ll probably go with the Axe-Fx, simply based on the effects capabilities."

My understanding is that he's gonna go with some flavor of Fractal, either ax or rack...?

Wow...23 pages of a discussion that leads nowhere. Who's feeding the beast more? mbrown3 or the rest of the community (now including me too)? Come on guys, time to let this thread die.

Quote from mf

Nothing wrong about that, and he's saying exactly what everyone seems to know for a fact: if you need effects? axe, if you want more accurate tone with a bit more responsiveness? kemper.

Still dont get, why one needs effects, if they have an accurate amp

(dont take this too serious...)

Quote from TheLightspeeder

That's funny...again here's an excerpt of his conclusion

"So, at this point unless I hear that the AX8 won’t be out for two years or something, I’ll probably wait for that to release. If it is going to be a while before it comes out, then I’ll probably go with the Axe-Fx, simply based on the effects capabilities."

My bad! i wasn't aware that the AX8 was a full axefx pedalboard (when i glanced at it some weeks ago i assumed it was just the fx blocks of the axe in pedalboard form factor)... then yup, i see your point and stand corrected

Quote from CPHfx

Still dont get, why one needs effects, if they have an accurate amp

(dont take this too serious...)

+1. I do have a kemper instead of an axe haha.

The irony of this 23 page long thread is that the OP just stated stuff that was already put out by forum members in the beginning of this thread.

I understand why some of the members seem to smell something fishy. No love for the new $2000 Kemper you bought. Already set to trade it in. No new outcomes from the debate, just the same old justifications that members on the forum stated, stated again.

How about my conclusions: the Kemper seriously rocks in terms of east of use, tone that is unbeatable and a constantly evolving feature set. Tone over FX, that's how I look at that contest.

I'd say 10-1, most users won't use all the FX in the Axe. I couldn't even do it with my GT-8. Sure, screw around with them, then what? Better to have stuff that has real world applications. Not to say the Kemper can't be improved, but I have a feeling it is on the to-do list in terms of stuff like more FX variations and slottable delays.

Quote from mbrown3

OK, Fractal forumite ethomas and I got together last evening to A/B the two units. ethomas is a good guy and I’m very grateful for his generosity of time and his willingness to come help me check out the two units. We did, indeed, have some really cool guitars to play with. It was fun.

I fully expect to get flamed by both camps, but I’ll start with the bottom line and then unpack the thoughts a little bit. Here’s the nutshell: both units sound incredible. Truly. They both sound and (just as importantly) feel like a legit tube amp. I don’t want to speak for ethomas but I think we both agreed that either unit would be very usable and that either of us would be happy with either one. That’s all. No qualifications. They both sound/feel fantastic. Note that both were on the latest firmware...3.0 for KPA and 18 beta for Axe-Fx, and both were played through an Atomic CLR Neo Wedge (great FRFR, incidentally).

Keep in mind that the last time I played through anything digital, solid state, or modeling-related was back in the Digitech RP series days. Those things sounded like crap and made everything sound overly digital. We’ve come a long way from those days and I could honestly use either of these units and be content.

Here are some more specific thoughts:
Tone - both sounded good. Really good. They both had some tones that were much better than others, and again this will be affected by the individual player, guitar, and so forth. For all of the talk by some of the Axe being hard to dial in (because of too many options), it really wasn’t hard to dial in a usable tone on either device. And both devices had some default profiles/models that just didn’t sound that good. I’m not so much concerned with how accurate to the original amp the sounds are (unless I’m trying to capture my own amps, in which case I’m VERY concerned with that); I’m more interested in whether they sound good and are usable tones for me. Both definitely had that in spades.

Feel - both feel really good, respond well to finger dynamics, how hard you pick, etc. Both respond well to volume and tone knob adjustments. I’d give a very slight edge for “feel” to the KPA, but it’s almost imperceptible. They both feel great. No hesitations about this at all (this was one of my worries going in).

Usability - both are really easy to use. If you’re going into really deep parameters and messing around with them, then probably either device could get tedious or complex (esp. the Axe because it has more options). But just pulling up profiles/presets/whatever is easy on both. I’m far less concerned about this than many people seem to be, because I’ll get accustomed to whatever I end up with.

Effects - this is the only place, IMO, where there is a clear win for either unit (unless you’re comparing just a flat number of features). The Axe’s effects sound more natural, there are far more of them, and there are a lot more options to configure them. I don’t use a ton of effects, so this isn’t necessarily as big of a deal for me as it might be for others, but even the two effects that I almost always use (delay and reverb), the Axe wins hands down. The biggest place where this was noticeable was in the decay of the delays and reverbs on the Kemper...they sounded very digital and non-natural - not drastically so, but noticeable. The Axe’s were really nice. I don’t think the Kemper’s effects sound bad; they are very usable. But when you compare them, they just don’t stand up to the Axe’s. Also the routing options in the Axe-Fx DO make a difference. Sometimes I want the delay early in the chain, sometimes at the end, etc.

Conclusion - So, what’s my choice? I’m actually still not 100% sure. That’s not a cop-out; both units are awesome and could work for me. I think given the parity between most facets of the units, the one thing that stands out is the effects on the Axe. For that reason alone, I’d probably choose the Axe platform over the KPA. I could certainly use the KPA and then just use another effects unit, but I’m trying to eliminate as much gear as possible. All things considered, my ideal solution would actually be something like the AX8. If that was coming any time soon, it would make the decision pretty easy, and it also combines the foot controller with the modeling and effects. A couple of trade-offs, but for me they would be easily worth it. So, at this point unless I hear that the AX8 won’t be out for two years or something, I’ll probably wait for that to release. If it is going to be a while before it comes out, then I’ll probably go with the Axe-Fx, simply based on the effects capabilities.

For me, this is not a win-lose situation; we live in a great time when there are fantastic devices like these that make the choice between them really difficult and really just come down to what works better for each person, based more on minor usage factors than any major or overwhelmingly lopsided difference in quality, etc.

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Not to keep this dragging on or anything, but in one of your original posts you talked about wanting to replace your amps if you could find tones that matched well enough. Did you, then? And did you try profiling them with the Kemper (it's called a Profiling Amplifier for a reason, haha; to not even investigate its primary function before passing judgment wouldn't be very scientific ) ?

Cheers,
Sam

Quote from timo

Amstrad!

Yeah I was going to say this reminds me of the Sega Genesis / Megadrive VS Super Nes debates in the 90s. And then guess what, Sega started making games for Nintendo, Sonic and Mario appeared in games together. Hey, even Noel Gallagher and Damon Albarn are performing together now. Who knows what the future holds...... Haha.

Quote from endlessnameless

Yeah I was going to say this reminds me of the Sega Genesis / Megadrive VS Super Nes debates in the 90s. And then guess what, Sega started making games for Nintendo, Sonic and Mario appeared in games together. Hey, even Noel Gallagher and Damon Albarn are performing together now. Who knows what the future holds...... Haha.

We are already there: a KEMPER Remote with delivery delays like the AXE 8 The best of both worlds?!?
(Just joking)

I find absolutely licit that the OP makes all the possible evaluations and reasoning before spending so much for a preamp, and asks as many questions as possible wherever there are people in the know. And where else can those people be more easily found?

Also, it seems absolutely clear to me that many members here (sad to say) just feel their nerves touched whenever the Profiler is called into question, specially if the reference point is the Axe-Fx.
Doesn't the fact that people on the FAS forum reacted the same way ring any bell? Haven't we always claimed that "we are better"?

Furthermore: it doesn't matter whether the OP was already inclined towards one of the two, it's quite normal that a person has got an idea to start from but needs to check it on the field. With his first-hand experience on both he's now able to make an informed choice.

TBH, I find it distasteful that we cry lese majesty every time the Profiler is criticized. I'm also surprised at seeing how much effort someone here is putting into trying to demonstrate that the OP is trolling.
The only guilt I can find in the OP is his naivety, by not expecting we are basically two bunches of sharp spinsters.
Sorry, I'm aware it sounds harsh but this is exactly how many people on the Fractal forum (and sadly many others here) behave. I felt I had to state it.

Peace

To the OP: be happy with whatever you feel helps you make better music and have more fun, it's just a f###ing bunch of cards and circuits!

@viabcroce
I don't see people being overly pro Kemper

It may be more of a- what was all of this for again.
Everything has been said.
In the end, his final verdict was pretty much the general consensus already known and what he was told from the beginning.

He just long winded the whole deal again to come to the same two to three sentence conclusion.

I guess he has a LOT of free time to build these wall of words, on two forums ( at least that I know of).

@sambrox

Quote

Not to keep this dragging on or anything, but in one of your original posts you talked about wanting to replace your amps if you could find tones that matched well enough. Did you, then? And did you try profiling them with the Kemper (it's called a Profiling Amplifier for a reason, haha; to not even investigate its primary function before passing judgment wouldn't be very scientific ) ?Cheers,Sam

I have to agree with Sam. Nothing more to say other than good luck and best wishes on your never ending search