FW 3.0 ... Why did it became soooo complicated

  • Hi would like to know why this new DI/Merged profiles just lead to a so complex manipulation :


    Summary :
    We have :
    - studio profile : old method to capture amp + (cab & mic)
    => turning off the cab allows to remove the (cab + mic) using the cabdriver algorithm
    => You can swap cab section with another one (the cabdriver takes the preamp section from one profile and add the "extracted "cab & mic) section from another one.
    - old school DI profile : a studio profile but only the preamp captured
    => turning off the cab does nothing interresting
    => you can swap the cab section from another (cab & mic) from another profile
    - new profile (DI + "real cab")
    => you can turn off the cab to get the real preamp sound
    => you can swap the cab section with another profiles (or IR)


    Except "the old school DI" ... other manipulations seem the same : the difference is in one case, cabdriver algo attempts to separate/estimate the preamp and cab, and in the other case, you get the real preamp and the real cab part.


    So, why adding a "Merge" step, why just not simply select another cab, just as before ?

  • because switching cabs did never work well. there was always amp colour in the cab, and amp only was missing something.
    The new way you can swap "true"
    and on real cab there is like no difference to real amp.
    imo old profiles on real cab were a bit dark+ like covered.

  • Because the kemper can finally distinguish more faithfully the " difference" between the amp and cab, giving more authentic sounding cabinets when scrolling through new 3.0 cabinets... Also, the new " DI" profiles are captured at the Amps output now, not just the preamp: this is a huge difference. You are capturing the power amp and preamp and the interaction between it, not just the preamp section.

  • I understand what the new method bring to us !, i would just like to turn off the cab or swap the cab in the same way, what ever the profiles format. KPA just know about the profile and enable or not the cabdriver


  • It gives you an accurate Direct Amplifier Profile sound through the monitor out with a Studio Profile through the main outs.


    OK, I have to admit that the more I read about FW3 and the new separation features, the less I understand. I can hardly keep up with all the terminology and I'm not exactly technology-thick... :huh:


    Does Direct always go out the monitor out and the Studio out the mains? Also, what exactly is "Direct" in this case? Preamp+poweramp?
    What if I'm using monitor out into a frfr speaker?


    I'm sorry, this was just the final straw in my confusion, I just don't know what's what anymore...

    I'm just trying to be as truthful to my experience and personal opinion that I'm clearly presenting only as a personal opinion no more no less in an honest and truthful discussion about equipment.

  • The Merge does two things.


    It gives you an accurate Direct Amplifier Profile sound through the monitor out with a Studio Profile through the main outs.


    And, after the Merge, the cabinet section of the Studio Profile is more accurate for use with other profiles.


    Thats true, but it also comes at the expense of the overall profile, the two "better" components don't add up to something as close to the source as the single studio profile so far in my experience.

  • Direct (preamp/poweramp) got via monitorout to real cab and at the same time Studioprofile via mainouts to FOH
    FRFR will not work :)


    It will if you leave cabs on.
    Right?


    My question exactly, Sam!
    Also:
    - What happens with the "old" profiles? Are they then only "properly" usable through main outs?
    - Can I have Studio (the whole shabang) through both FRFR and FOH?
    - Monitor out is useless without a real guitarcab?
    - What goes out "direct out" in this new scheme of things?


    8|

    I'm just trying to be as truthful to my experience and personal opinion that I'm clearly presenting only as a personal opinion no more no less in an honest and truthful discussion about equipment.

  • I understand what the new method bring to us !, i would just like to turn off the cab or swap the cab in the same way, what ever the profiles format. KPA just know about the profile and enable or not the cabdriver


    You want the KPA to automatically detect whether the Profile is a Studio Profile or Direct Amp Profile?
    That's fine, but in any event you have to choose the Cab from a Merged Studio Profile or IR to use with a Direct Amp Profile.


    Lars, correct me if I'm wrong.
    I can load one of your Direct Amp Profiles, then save the Cabinet, then use your Cabinet on any other Direct Amp Profile...correct?
    Or, I can use your Direct Amp Cabinet that I saved on an old pre FW 3.0 Profile...correct?...it might sound a little different because it's a fully separated Cabinet with no Kemper steroids baked in...correct?
    Or I can just use pre FW 3.0 Profiles and Cabinets and just imagine that I'm still using FW 2.7...correct?

  • The old profiles work just like they did before. You can just keep using them like you did before. Merged profiles can be treated like old profiles as well, switching cabs of wool just work better than it did before.

  • Switching cabs works differently than before I'd say rather than better. Instead of taking some of the amp characteristics with it the cab now only takes the EQ, meanwhile the amp retains the interaction of the particular cab that it was profiled with as part of it. Effectively it shifts where the boundary between cab and amp separated more in favor of the amp. Personally I find the new results less convincing and more like using IR's.


    What works much better than before is running the DI out to a real cab while sending the merged profile to the FOH.

  • Seriously, I repeat what I said way before it was released and it just came true after testing the firmware a bit. Last thing I want is to mess with inferior tech which is IRs, they produce artificial and poor results comparing to profiling full chain. I have no idea why anyone would want to use this feature in the studio, might as well go back to software amp emulators. All this firmware is good for me is plugging a powered Kemper into a cab for on stage monitoring.
    Other than that, this release brought a lot of confusion. New style profiles need to be clearly marked by default.