OK Testing FW 3.0! [How Kemper works? All amps sound similar]?

Quote from sinmix

all my samples are reamped

I was talking about the Jevo clip you posted! Any differences in that clip can be attributed to any number of things, as it isn't the same guitar part reamped, but replayed. That rules that clip out from any scientific comparison, is all I was getting at (plus the lossy mp3 encoding!).

Cheers,
Sam

for me

same mic, same cab, same position 5 different amps =

Still 5 differnt sounds because of 5 different gainstructures.
With Real Amps and yes also with the Kemper.

sorry

First, if you have differences in some clips and no difference in others - then there are differences, period. They just don't always happen - for various reasons.
You know, perhaps better than most, what difference a cab/mic/preamp combo can cause - and that still has different interaction between poweramp and cab, which the Profiler assigns to the amp section, even with the newer FW.

Second, looking at your list...
333XL, 6262, Trirec, Fireball, 5150, Alligator, D-Rec, 5150, 6505, Satan, V2...
All 5150 variants, some closer than others.
The Hector, X100B, Triamp, GH100, Ironheart and actual Marshalls are all JCM variants.

80% of your list are variants of two different amps. When push comes to shove, most well known amps are variants of one another, circuit-wise and therefore also gain-structure-wise.

You see this as a limitation of the Profiler, i see this as a valuable lesson in electronics. I don't think you'd get different results by plugging the preamps into the same power-section, cab, mics and pres.

I do agree that more flexibility in poweramp-dynamics would benefit the Profiler greatly, but that's the only thing missing, for me.

Well, the I5 on the Mesa cab easily takes the cake, as far as i'm concerned. No real competition.
That wasn't the point, though, was it?

The point of a comparison is to compare one element when all other variables are dismissable.
That means you need the same mic and same mic location for all three cabs.
What you've proven here is that it is technically possible to achieve a similar sound by modifying mics and angles - the first two cabs are similar-ish.

Maybe i missed your point, though?
I'm waiting, patiently

I'm gonna do a 100m sprint with three contestants to measure the effect different shoes have on their speeds.
One contestant is tall, the other never ran in his life and the third is a Nobel prize winner.

If one of them wins, what information have i gathered on the shoes?..

If you show me that 3 direct amp profiles through different cabs have a similar gain structure while the same three amps through the same three cabs, mics and positions don't -
then we have a valid comparison.
When everything is equal apart for the Kemper's gain structuring, then you can learn about Kemper's gain structuring.

You're going to show me that while having three different cabs makes the profiles sound different,
having the same cab/mic combo makes different amps sound similar.

That's not a bad test, and a pretty interesting claim - but i don't think it's what you set out to prove. It compares the Kemper Profiler to itself.
If you now try a 6505, 5150 and a 333XL through the same cab, i'd expect them to sound very similar, through the Profiler or otherwise.
If you toss the Satan in, maybe the Profiler just doesn't capture that particular amp well.
Maybe the similarity in 'gain structure' you're hearing is due to your preamp and not the Profiler. Maybe it's Youtube's downsampling

It may sound like i'm trying to excuse the Profiler - i've no intention of doing that, i'm actually pretty interested, however -
correct me if i'm wrong, but what you wanted to show was that the Profiler has a distinct 'gain structure' while the actual amps vary. It's not something that the amps do, it's the fault of the Profiler;
So i'd expect your test to include the actual amps and compare them to the Profiler.

I think that it's pretty normal to ear similar sounds coming out from very high gain amps (basically set for metal) passing thru the same cab and being filtered by the same mic.
Neverthless i'm still hoping for a deeper profiling mode, which can take into consideration the tonestack and the different behaviors of the amp with different gain levels.

P.S: happy 1000 post to me!

Don't stop now sinmix.
You got me interested.
Besides I am getting better at understanding you and your English is starting to get better with the practice.

You know what, I agree with sinmix 100%. The only "problem" i had with the profiler pre-fw2.8 was that different amps through the same CAB sounded almost the same (if they had comparable gain obviously). I was led to believe that with the release of the FW3.0 this problem would be solved. Well, from what merged profiles I've tried so far (sinmix, deadlight, thumas etc), the problem remains. The CAB part of a profile ALWAYS contributes A LOT more to the final sound than the AMP part.

I think the test to determine if its a general occurance or Kemper-specific, would be to record three REAL amps on the IDENTICAL real-cab and mic setup, and then compare the results to their three kemper direct amp profiles on the same (kemper) cab.

I have personally never done such a test (nor am I able to), but when plugging my evh 5150 and my mesa mark iv in the SAME cab (evh 2x12), their "in the room" sounds (ie no mics) are VERY different. With the profiler....not so much. So maybe the variable contributing the most could be the MICS? I dont't know...

ping pong...

i still remember those old days when there where some users complaining about how kemper sounded with a real cab and a power amp(strange frequencies, not clear seperation).Remember the days with the cab driver. There were suggestions to use only di profiles or pre amp profiles which also led to unsatisfactory results .I also remember the answers that these users were getting. :"Noooooo it sounds like a dream.....wonderful, there must be something wrong with you or your power amp etc."And then suddenly we all accepted the fact that something didn't work properly.

For me there is a specific characteristic in every profile i hear even with the new firmware.That's my humble opinion.