Can we please get some kind of Kemper Editor Software for your computer

    Quote from crazyfingers378

    Sorry if this has been mentioned before but I just bought a Kemper about a week ago after years of burning money on high end tube amps. I was pretty shocked to find that I had to edit all parameters and organize 999 profiles on that little screen and…

    Quote from Dean_R


    I doubt that you'r in the minority. I was shocked when I found out there was no editor. I'm thinking that Rig Manager is the foundation of what will become the full editor,


    I was not shocked, because I haven't done any research back then. But I would find visual Rig Editor (integrated along with improved Amps, Rigs and Cabs Management) very handy - mostly because Kemper is out of my reach ofter and I have to move from desk on the chair to another place. I'm not sure, how(if) that would cure my playing or learning curve tho :)


    The "problem" with Kemper is, that it is not another set of static amps and cabs stored inside some flash memory in chip.


    Just imagine, you did hard reset or so with you Kemper, you don't have any amps or any cabs onboard of Kemper, just fx. OK you have so called "Crunch" (lately known as "Initialised Rig").


    Now imagine you have Kemper Rig Editor loaded as VST to your DAW. You click on AMPS and what do you see? "Crunch" - just one amp...You click on CABS and also see one cab... "Crunch".


    Now you have imported some rigs of different format: Studio rigs, Merged rigs or even Direct Amp profiles. You have 100 of them in total.


    When you launch DAW and Kemper Rig Editor as VST it starts to synchronize. It has to check now many unique amps are there onboard of Kemper - to display the list of amps in Rig Editor. You have 100 rigs, but how many amps are there to be shown in Rig Editor while creating you own rig? If these rigs were profiled in different sessions you have 100 different amps. Even if all of them are Marshall JCM 800 profiled. So there will be 100 icons of JCM 800 in AMPS tab in Rig Editor. Marshall_JCM_800_01, Marshall_JCM_800_02, Marshall_JCM_800_03, Marshall_JCM_800_04, Marshall_JCM_800_05...


    Now you happily bought on Black Friday sale another 100 rigs/profiles. You import them from USB.


    Kemper has to check, if any of these 100 profiles does not have an amp that is already onboard of Kemper, not to display it as "new" amp in AMPS tab in Kemper Rig Editor.
    It has to compare 100 elements to 100 elements. How many is 100x100? :D


    Kemper has to check, if any of these 100 profiles does not have an cab that is already onboard of Kemper, not to display it as "new" cab in CABS tab in Kemper Rig Editor.
    Synchronization is overwhelming :whistling:


    Now, add to this possibilities to build rigs upon Rig Manager Local Library - do you want to be able to build rigs upon amps and cabs that are in your local stored rigs? Cool, if not Kemper itself then Kemper Rig Editor has to go through 1234 files, you have on your hard drive and count unique amps and cabs and CHECK if the same amps cabs do not exist in Kemper. You then upload new 20 rigs to RigManager (which maybe part of Kemper Editor) and again there is need to check if these 20 new rigs do not contain already amps and cabs that are in Kemper or Local Library, not to duplicate them in Kemper Rig Editor.


    Because Kemper does not follow the paradigm of static number of amps and cabs like it's competitors, I find making proprietary Rig Editor a challenge.
    For AXE, 11R, Line6 use patches/profiles/rigs are settings of the parameters. Kemper's rigs are files which contain actual amp and cab (in digital form) and settings.
    And these rigs can be studio, merged, just amps, just cabs....


    My 2 cents on Kemper Rig Editor ;) Have I said anywhere that it sounds bad, huh ;) ?

    skoczy:I don't think it's bad at all. We already use rig manager. The way I see it , it's quite simple. Since nobody is going to edit more than one profile at a time, I don't see a problem. What rig manager is already doing is showing every profile on the rig exchange and local library on my PC. I can quickly browse hundred of profiles as fast as I can play them by using the down arrow on the computer keyboard.


    To get an editor going all that needs to be done is when I Double Click on a profile in the PC view, it's loaded into the Kemper and an Editor screen appears with all the effects and parameters currently on the Kemper. I edit these parameters and the edits are sent to the Kemper in real time so I can hear the changes, once done I click save; another small screen can appear to give some choices such as: Save to Kemper, Save to Library (on the computer) and that's it! (of course it would be nice if that screen can also give the option of saving effect settings similar to what's already on the hardware)Am I missing something? I'm not sure if what you're saying is that all these parameters of all the existing amps have to be loaded and sent from the Kemper to Computer and vice versa at the same time!


    Just to give a point of reference , I currently have 309 rigs on the Hardware an 9000 on my computer that includes all the rigs on the exchange as of yesterday in case I'm not connected to the internet. I can load any of these rigs at any given instance with no problem. If I need to browse using filters I can view using filters with any criteria such as fender deluxe that's on the exchange in seconds, which is by the way really nice. The way I see it the only thing missing is after loading that profile in the Kemper is the ability it to edit that one profile and save it as I said above. :)

    @Dean_R I see your point. So basically you need an Kemper Rig Editor to be able lo load into it's interface rig from Local Lobrary and present the amp cab and fx parameters so yuo can play with them and save them yes?


    And what about changing the cab of the rig that you loaded to Kemper Rig Editor. Kemper Rig Editor must have the list of ALL CABS both from Kemper and Local Library. So when you click on CABS tab, Kemper Rig Editor has to fetch actual list of unique cabs from Kemper, then it has to fetch all unique cabs from Local Library (you mentioned 9000 files) and eliminate duplicates...


    The same goes for changing amps.


    And YES you got me! The fact that the rigs may be stored both at Kemper and in Local Library makes the challenge of being in sync. In modellers you have only amps and cabs in device.


    By the way, the title of this thread says: "Can we please get some kind of Kemper Editor Software for your computer" I prefer good quality over some :D

    I'm sure there would be some sort of compromise of limiting the cabs to what's inside the Kemper. I'm sure someone at Kemper can come up with an elegant solution. I'm not a programmer but I think something like this would work, where they can add one more tag to add profiles to some "Edit pool", if you want to call that, and anything in the "edit pool" will be available with a 200-300 limit for amps and Cabs, who knows they might be able give more.

    @skoczy - your thesis is true only if editor should have such feature like cab or amp merging from list function.
    There is a simpler solution - just browse your rigs - and hit copy cab(amp) section and paste cab(amp) section without any list of rigs.


    Then just navigate to your rig and hit paste. Thats all.
    You have the same solution implemented right now in KPA :)

    @DamianGreda I don't get you :) if you have 300 rigs in Kemper (300 amps and 300 cabs) + 500 in LocalLibrary - you have 800 amps and 800 cabs to be displayed in RigEditor. I imagine on first KPA Rig Editor there should be like "building database", which would take few minutes...


    You suggest to limit amps/cabs to be displayed on the list in KPA Rig Editor?


    Next - the ability to delete "amps" from Kemper is not happening in traditional modelers solutions. Kemper team would have to block deleting the amp when the RIg Editor is running or sync the KPA and Rig Editor - delete amp in KPA, delete from the list in Rig Editor and vice versa.


    This is not happening for AXE, 11R, Line6 - you cannot delete amps/cabs from device, you cannot use amps/cabs from computer. Well, IR files or amps in firmware updates exists, but this is another thing...


    In my private opinion KPA Rig Editor will not happen :) Well, it's doable but requires hard analysis, tricky design and optimization. Kemper has relatively slow memory write - think importing Rigs. What if you delete 100 rigs from Rig Editor? Kemper Rig Editor has to sync... and the story goes :)


    I would like to have Rig Editor, mostly because Kemper is out of my reach, it will not make me play better though :)

    @skoczy Why do you want to have Editor with list of all available cabs and amps ? There is no need to display the whole list of your rigs, cabs, amps etc.
    Just select your rig in RM or in the KPA by hitting Rig up Rig down (or in editor by hitting up and down) and copy your desired section. and then paste it to the new rig.
    Most of the people want the editor to tweak parameters .

    Quote from DamianGreda

    @skoczy Why do you want to have Editor with list of all available cabs and amps ? There is no need to display the whole list of your rigs, cabs, amps etc.
    Just select your rig in RM or in the KPA by hitting Rig up Rig down (or in editor by hitting up and down) and copy your desired section. and then paste it to the new rig.
    Most of the people want the editor to tweak parameters .


    @DamianGreda - well, being able to select any of available amps and cabs is what happened always in modelers :) So you suggest what people want, is Rig Editor being able to edit/tweak one rig at a time? Well - I don't see a point pressing anything in KPA while Rig Editor would exists. I just don't understand, why shouldn't I be able to select 1 of 100 cabs on my list :)

    Quote from skoczy

    I don't get you :-)In my private opinion KPA Rig Editor will not happen :)


    That can be said about many effects processors . If they decide to release one and make it more of a priority, I doubt that it's as difficult as you're viewing it. RIG manager currently gives users the ability to load their choice of rigs from thousands of rigs in the computer and scroll through them faster than they can play a note on each profile.

    Quote from Dean_R

    RIG manager currently gives users the ability to load their choice of rigs from thousands of rigs in the computer and scroll through them faster than they can play a note on each profile.


    But user cannot preview cab, engage DLY, play with Pure Cab, amp definition and everything else that is doable on the Kemper itself.

    Quote from skoczy

    But user cannot preview cab, engage DLY, play with Pure Cab, amp definition and everything else that is doable on the Kemper itself.


    You're correct, but I think this will change, I see the next update bringing up many of the things you mention and eventually Kemper will be able to boast about a computer editor.

    One can only hope Dean!!!


    FYI- one of the best sound design features on the software side of the Axe FX II is it's editor. Its something for Fractal to brag about, and they should brag because it works well and its easy to use. I too would love for my KPA to have a good (MAC) editor... :thumbup:

    If you use FRFR the benefit of a merged profile is that the cabinet is totally separated in the profile.


    For my edification only... ;) Kemper/Axe-FX III/ Quad Cortex user

    Funny thing is when I bought the KPA few months ago in August, I assumed that an editor was a given so I didn't even research that part of the equation, but when I found that Rig Manager was just a librarian and that actually there was no editor, I didn't even want to think or give reason to why such an omission is still not addressed. No need to speculate on the reasons why this is the case, but I believe that they don't realize that even though sales are good, Kemper could sell and have less returns with a good computer editor.


    I venture to guess that most of Kempers returned is due to inability of some to get the sounds due to editing limitations.Sure many don't see the limitation and are unaffected by it, but quite a few can be really put off by it and give up on using the hardware interface as lovely, simple and well though out it is. Editor is a must to get full advantage and be competitive in digital devices.

    This is the one thing that prevents me from changing from the Axe FX to the Kemper. It is much faster for me to be able to have many parameters up on a software editor at once and change what I need too when creating presets. This is especially the case when you change platforms say from another modeller to the Kemper. I have over a hundred preset sounds with amps, cabs and effects configurations that I would need to move across into the Kemper. A software editor makes this much faster.

    Quote from Dean_R

    Funny thing is when I bought the KPA few months ago in August, I assumed that an editor was a given so I didn't even research that part of the equation, but when I found that Rig Manager was just a librarian and that actually there was no editor, I didn't even want to think or give reason to why such an omission is still not addressed. No need to speculate on the reasons why this is the case, but I believe that they don't realize that even though sales are good, Kemper could sell and have less returns with a good computer editor.


    I venture to guess that most of Kempers returned is due to inability of some to get the sounds due to editing limitations.Sure many don't see the limitation and are unaffected by it, but quite a few can be really put off by it and give up on using the hardware interface as lovely, simple and well though out it is. Editor is a must to get full advantage and be competitive in digital devices.


    What editing limitations you've run into which require an editor? The only one I can think of is having Kemper two rooms away while sitting at the console.


    Editor is a must to get full advantage and be competitive in digital devices.


    Now, the above is just a bunch of bollocks. How about inventing a game changing process which allows a digital device to capture sound and feel of a tube amp with uncanny accuracy? Something nobody, including close "competition" was able to do before?


    An editor would be nice to have, but it's not necessary. If someone is returing their Kemper because of lack of an editor, that's a good thing, because obviously their ears are not functioning properly (but, I guess, 99% of the internet and I know absolutely nothing about the subject, but I still feel like I really have to present my opinion, I must guess that nobody does return their Kemper ever, more so, about 87% people buy a second one, I can also read CK mind, even now ;) )


    For me Kemper is just out of reach of my hand. Second thing that was mentioned many times is, that you cannot effectively preview cabs, you have to scroll using the knob and shortening it's life.


    The magic that happens in Kemper using ARM7TDMI-S processor is stunning that's for sure. But I just cannot understand, why no Editor.

    Edited once, last by skoczy ().