In search of the Holy Grail, Part XIII, Kee Marcello and EUROPE

  • Hi there,


    i love the song here from the time when Kee Marcello played in the band. I have recorded a decent reampable track but cannot for the love of god find a fitting profile.
    I am particularly interested in the hi sustain sound at the beginning and - even more so - in the beefy crunch sound you can listen to between 0:50 and 1:00.
    Any suggestions?



    cheers

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

  • I've consulted my panel of experts and they assure me that the Kemper is incapable of doing this in any way shape or form.
    The only available method would be "Tone Matching" I'm afraid! ;)


    Seriously, the lead guitarist Norum plays a Les Paul through a 50 Watt Marshall JCM 800, so grab them Gibson humbuckers and search Rig Manager for the 800's and peruse them for the closest few, then just tweak Gain, Volume and Reverb to suit I think you'll be there.


    For my ears, that crunch you are digging is the classic LP crunch. This guy has been around a long time and played a lot of guitars, but he seems to dig the LP->800 most often and that's what my ears think they're hearing.

  • This video indicates his preferred guitar is the Gibson BDT (Black Duct Tape) guitar:


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  • The sustain sound at the beginning of the studio version of the song is letting the note rig out, with the pickup wide open, and turning to face the speaker at a loud enough volume to drive it into that kind of feedback. The crunch at 0:50 sounds like the same tone to me, with the guitar volume turned down for chords.


    This video (from 1992) shows him using a Black LP Custom and a Marshall. In earlier tour videos (without the song), he has EMG pickups in it. The song is at 20 minutes or so.


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  • This video indicates his preferred guitar is the Gibson BDT (Black Duct Tape) guitar:


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    That's John Norum. The original studio solo in 'Girl from Lebanon' (from Prisoners in Paradise) was by Kee Marcello, who replaced Norum right after the 'Final Countdown' album.
    The guy in the second video is Kee. As you can hear he is much more of a shredder. Norum, who returned for Europes second career, always skips the Marcello-runs nowadays.

    Edited 3 times, last by Syre ().

  • Thanks for all the comments! :thumbup:


    Yes, Kee Marcello had replaced John Norum when "Prisoners" was recorded by Europe. The production of Beau Hill has stood the test of time, at least IMHO.
    Anyway. Back in 1992, the guitar of the day was a modern strat, with humbuckers. I do not know whether Kee played one at the time and i have to say that my Les Paul sounds closer
    to this sound than my Charvel EVH. I have recorded tracks with both guitars and the sound is still far off the mark.
    So, for the 4 bar riff, you recommend a Marshall, right? A JCM 800? There is a good Kemper one, but very crisp-crunchy, not working well with more gain. Any hints?
    Secondly, is it possible to simulate this kind of huge feedback of the intro with the KPA? Seriously, i do not know, folks,
    Thirdly, anyone here into Keyboard sounds, my wife played the chords well, still searching for closer soounds. cheers

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

  • Post Scriptum: Yes, even after the reunion with Norum, they - surprisingly - still play the song live, but i am after the sound of the record by Kee.

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

  • Secondly, is it possible to simulate this kind of huge feedback of the intro with the KPA?


    Yes, but you aren't simulating it. You are making the guitar feedback the same way he did it. This requires speaker volume, and practice - you have to be in the correct position, compared to the speaker, to get a specific note to feed back. Generally speaking, though, if you sustain the note, facing the speaker, and get the guitar pickups very close to the speaker (less than 1/2 meter) the guitar will feedback.

  • I would be shocked if someone told me that was a Strat. I suppose a Strat with humbuckers can certainly do a lot of that hi-gain tone from that era but... that sort of crunch is something I am used to associated with a much thicker guitar and only have heard from an LP.


    The difficulty here is Kee played so many types of guitar you can't say "oh, yeah, he's a Strat guy" and what folks play on tour is not always what's used to record (who wants to stand with a heavy old LP?)

  • I would be shocked if someone told me that was a Strat. I suppose a Strat with humbuckers can certainly do a lot of that hi-gain tone from that era but... that sort of crunch is something I am used to associated with a much thicker guitar and only have heard from an LP.


    The difficulty here is Kee played so many types of guitar you can't say "oh, yeah, he's a Strat guy" and what folks play on tour is not always what's used to record (who wants to stand with a heavy old LP?)


    True. For the crunchy line the neck pickup of my bonamassa lp sounds fine, but still not the sound. a mix of clean/crunch with a EVH iii got me closer, but still:
    no cigar! any comments which profile to use?

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

  • Hi Kee is a great player. I tryed a rig for the intro (played with bridge pick up). I put in on the rig exchange. It s called Lebanon. For me it s nearly the sound of the intro. Tweak a little with the Echo and Hall. The track is 94,06 bpm, so the echo is right, maybe it s to much and you bring it down a little. I use a Ibanez Jem 7Vwh for it. The solo in the middle Kee switches between bridge and neck pick. The warm part is the neck ;)
    The feedback only comes from his boxes, but try to punch hard with the pick and use the harmonic to come near by.
    This tone fits for my HK nano 600 system, i think you have to tweak the eq , i dont know what kind of pa you are playing. I tryed this rig also with my LP. Its a liitle big warmer, but not so crisp as Kees sound in the intro. Check it out. I am lookink for your comment.
    Thumas: This is one of my favorit profiled boogie profile ever. THX for it. It takes me minutes to have a good sound with it. :thumbup:

  • Hi Kee is a great player. I tryed a rig for the intro (played with bridge pick up). I put in on the rig exchange. It s called Lebanon. For me it s nearly the sound of the intro. Tweak a little with the Echo and Hall. The track is 94,06 bpm, so the echo is right, maybe it s to much and you bring it down a little. I use a Ibanez Jem 7Vwh for it. The solo in the middle Kee switches between bridge and neck pick. The warm part is the neck ;)
    The feedback only comes from his boxes, but try to punch hard with the pick and use the harmonic to come near by.
    This tone fits for my HK nano 600 system, i think you have to tweak the eq , i dont know what kind of pa you are playing. I tryed this rig also with my LP. Its a liitle big warmer, but not so crisp as Kees sound in the intro. Check it out. I am lookink for your comment.
    Thumas: This is one of my favorit profiled boogie profile ever. THX for it. It takes me minutes to have a good sound with it. :thumbup:


    #


    That is fantastic news to me. I am so glad that somebody digs this song. I absolutely ADORE Kee Marcello's work on the two CDs with Europe and i think that
    the production of Beau Hill also is beyond celestial here. I like so many solos of Marcello on this record, it has been a MAJOR influence for me.
    And NOT the shredding parts, but also the long bending note parts.


    Anyway, thanks so much Jupp, and i am going to report later this evening, stay tuned. Thx :thumbup:

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

  • To set the record straight: I am living in exile, i do have two passports, the german one and the bavarian also.
    I was born in Mönchengladbach, where i lived for a week, but returned often later, and the next 19+ years in the
    darkest region of the ruhrgebiet! I still speak the local dialect fluently! Da kommich also wech, Jupp. Grüße!
    Big problem here, i cannot import the LEBANON RIG. Neither via RM nor USB stick! ?(
    I am on fimrware 2.7.3. for that matters????
    Solved!

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    Edited once, last by Geraldo7 ().

  • Thanks to user Eltzejupp, i have solved the issue. IMHO:

    • A Les Paul Bridge PU and the effects of Jupp for the delay and solo parts
    • For my taste a smoother rig, i have used a dumble of MBritt, which i cannot share, unfortunately
    • For the crunchy part, take the neck PU. Some of you suggested a JCM 800. Bingo. Some im RE are "better" than others, choose the one which suits your taste.
    • Done!


      @Eltzejupp - superb work, thanks again and cu in Veltins Arena?

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.