How to make your own merged profiles?

  • Is there a guide or thread somewhere for making merged profiles with the new 3.0.F/W anywhere? I’ve searched the manuals, wiki and forums pretty intensely.


    I’ve successfully made a (direct amp?) profile going:-


    guitar>kpa front input>kpa direct out>preamp>kpa return input.


    But what I really want to do is make a merged profile of my complete old setup which is preamp/poweramp/cab.


    I have all the gear I need (including an Art X-Direct DI box).


    I was assuming there a way of using the DI box to take a direct amp profile and the mic’d cab simultaneously, but can’t figure out how this would work. Or are you just meant to create a direct profile like I have, then a combined (old firmware style) profile with a mic to get the cab in the mix and combine the two?

  • I suggest downloading the updated manual. It explains it clearly as follows:


    Merging Studio Profiles and Direct Amp Profiles


    In case you were wondering, Direct Amp Profiles can seamlessly be merged with Cabinets of Studio Profiles into a single Profile containing the sound of both. To do this, create a Direct Amp Profile (without cabinet) and a Studio Profile (with cabinet and microphone) of the same reference amplifier and store them separately. It's good practice to keep all settings of the reference amplifier exactly the same for both Profiles, to yield as authentic a result as possible. Both Profiles can then be merged by copying the Cabinet of the Studio Profile into the Direct Amp Profile and press the soft button "Merge Cabinet". Here's the procedure in detail:


     Select the Studio Profile in Browse Mode.


     Hold the CABINET button for at least one second until it’s in focus.


     Press the COPY button on the Front Panel.


     Press EXIT and select the respective Direct Amp Profile.


     Hold CABINET again until it’s in focus.


     Press the PASTE button.


     "Merge Cabinet" will appear under soft button 2. Push it!


     You can undo/redo the merging by pressing "Merge Cabinet" again, and compare results.


     Press EXIT and store your new Profile.


     After storing it is not possible to undo the merging anymore!

  • Hello,


    I've been thinking about this.


    In the moment you select copy on the Cabinet section, how does the profiler know which part of the studio profile was just cabinet to copy???


    For me, the logical procedure would be to copy the direct profile amp section, and copy it into the studio profile amp section. This way the profiler knows the amp sound source and he has already the final result, so, STUDIO STACK - DIRECT AMP = CABINET exact profile.


    Does anyone thought about this?


    Greetings.

  • as far as I am aware that’s exact what it does. the order in which you select the two portions shouldn’t matter as long as the merge function knows to subtract the correct one.

    So, are you telling me, if I copy a cab from Profile 1 (Studio), and want to paste into Profile 2 (Direct out), the kemper is actually copying the profile 2 amp overwriting the profile 1 amp section, but while it is in the profile 2 Rig Slot?


    That way I still don't get how the kemper knows where to divide de studio profile 1 in two parts, the amp and the cab section.


    Also, when you are creating a merged profile, Kemper doesn't know the 2 used rigs are the same amp, so again, how does he divide the studio profile?


    It's more of a logycal question more than anything...


    In my opinion, the profiling feature needs a totally new mode in which you can save the 2 parts of the same amp (PROFILING TWICE, creating the studio and direct out of the same exact setup at once). This way the kemper knows the 2 sounds are from the exact same amp and settings, and he can divide or cut the studio profile perfectly, in order to create the exact amp and cab profiles.

  • So, are you telling me, if I copy a cab from Profile 1 (Studio), and want to paste into Profile 2 (Direct out), the kemper is actually copying the profile 2 amp overwriting the profile 1 amp section, but while it is in the profile 2 Rig Slot?


    That way I still don't get how the kemper knows where to divide de studio profile 1 in two parts,

    No, I’m saying that the kemper looks at the full Studio Profile then looks at the Direct Amp Profile and compares the two somehow ( some Kemper magic algorithm that’s way above my head) and SUBTRACTS the DAP from the Studio LEAVING just the cabinet. It then saves the two individual components so that they can be split accurately later in use. It doesn’t just paste one on top of the other but performs some sort of reverse profiling. I have no idea how it actually achieves this technically but that is the principle of what is happening.

    Quote

    Also, when you are creating a merged profile, Kemper doesn't know the 2 used rigs are the same amp, so again, how does he divide the studio profile?

    it doesn’t. It is up to the user to ensure they are using two profiles that they made at the same time.

    Quote

    In my opinion, the profiling feature needs a totally new mode in which you can save the 2 parts of the same amp (PROFILING TWICE, creating the studio and direct out of the same exact setup at once). This way the kemper knows the 2 sounds are from the exact same amp and settings, and he can divide or cut the studio profile perfectly, in order to create the exact amp and cab profiles.

    that is what is happening just now except the two profiles aren’t made simultaneously. You make one full studio profile. Then make a second DAP only profile. Then the KPA does it’s magic. As far as I am aware this is a hardware restriction rather than a software “feature” that could be changed.

  • Ok I see, the kemper always uses the algorithm to split a studio profile. I thought the point of merging was just to avoid that, but it seems not.


    My idea of "Dual Profiling" wouldn't be restricted by hardware. I am talking about profiling the two sounds separately, one after the other, using Profiling twice but not at the same time. Just the same as we do now, but while kemper knows they are the same amp and settings and it can split perfectly the studio profile without the algorithm.


    Anyways, thanks for the info.


    Greetings.

  • In my opinion, the profiling feature needs a totally new mode in which you can save the 2 parts of the same amp (PROFILING TWICE, creating the studio and direct out of the same exact setup at once). This way the kemper knows the 2 sounds are from the exact same amp and settings, and he can divide or cut the studio profile perfectly, in order to create the exact amp and cab profiles.

    This is nearly what creating a merged profile looks like with the restriction, that you have to profile twice and keep your hands of the Amp Settings. And for the DI profile it's not so critical, if you don't touch the amp or change the input levels than you have the same result. But you need to have those two profiles. Copying a cabinet from a complete different studio profile gives you a wrong result.

    I don't think that it is possible to do it in one step, every part needs it's own measurement to give you the right result. But the normal process of creating a merged profile works really well. I do it all the time.


    But that's exactly how creating a merged profile works. All other ways don't give you the correct result. Which doesn't mean you couldn't get something interesting out it but the real split needs those two profiles. And it's not a complicated algorithm which needs a lot of calculation because you already have the exact amp part.

  • But that's exactly how creating a merged profile works. All other ways don't give you the correct result. Which doesn't mean you couldn't get something interesting out it but the real split needs those two profiles. And it's not a complicated algorithm which needs a lot of calculation because you already have the exact amp part.

    That's the problem. You know it is the same amp, but the kemper doesn't. It will do the same than copying a cab from any rig to another rig, being different amps. As far as I know, merging works exactly the same.


    But if it were a way to tell kemper they are the same amp, same settings, the merging would be much more accurate.

  • That's the problem. You know it is the same amp, but the kemper doesn't. It will do the same than copying a cab from any rig to another rig, being different amps. As far as I know, merging works exactly the same.


    But if it were a way to tell kemper they are the same amp, same settings, the merging would be much more accurate.

    I'm sure it is not exactly the same than the whole merging functionality would be completely obsolete. The manual does not describe how it is exactly done but the merge will take more informations than only the splitted cab section. The way of doing this by hitting copy->paste->merge includes telling the merge function which is the studio profile to look at. The algorithm behind this whole thing should not be complicated because basically it is StudioProfile-DIProfile=Cab.


    My merged profiles are very accurate, do you have experienced any major problems there?

  • That's the problem. You know it is the same amp, but the kemper doesn't. It will do the same than copying a cab from any rig to another rig, being different amps. As far as I know, merging works exactly the same.


    But if it were a way to tell kemper they are the same amp, same settings, the merging would be much more accurate.

    no that isn’t right.


    The Kemper does know it’s the same amp. It knows this because you tell it so by using the merge function. It needs the same amp twice to be able to merge. If you use merge without the same amp the Kemper will try and merge it as if it was two profiles of the same amp (because that’s the unique aspect of Merging) but obviously the results will not be a true merged profile.


    As far as I can see, why you are proposed actually the current merge process. Some people don’t use it correctly but that doesn’t change what it actually does.