[solved - was Eureka problem] Kemper MIDI OUT corruption causing problem for FCB1010 w/ EurekaPROM2 "Effects State Feedback"

    Hi everybody
    I just got the EurekaPROM2 for my FCB. I switched from the Uno to the Eureka specifically for the Effects State Feeback (the LED lights properly indicating if an effect is on or off even when switching rigs), but I'm having problems with the footswitch LEDs randomly turning on and off regardless of effects state. I messaged EurekaSound on ebay and they promptly responded. Unfortunately, the solution that they say works for some people who have had this problem does not apply to me because my setup already meets their criteria. Hopefully some of you can shed some more light on the problem.







    Sent Date:Apr-14-15 11:11:15 PDT



    Dear eurekasound,


    Hi, the EurekaPROM2 arrived yesterday and for the most part it works well
    but I'm having one issue with it that I hope you can help me with.


    The
    FCB seems to be getting confused from time to time with the effects state
    feedback. It DOES properly reflect effects state MOST of the time (if an
    effect is on, the light is on and vice versa), but the footswitch LEDS are
    also randomly blinking on and off regardless of effects state, even if
    there is no effect assigned to the slot for which the LED is
    blinking.


    It seems to be totally random which lights are going to blink
    and when.


    My kemper has the latest firmware and I'm connecting to it
    with a brand new dual MIDI cable. I've checked all connections repeatedly,
    reset the configuration and recalibrated the FCB, and switched the Kemper
    MIDI channel from "Omni" to Channel 1. I always fully boot the Kemper
    before booting the FCB. None of this has helped. I've also ran the FCB's
    diagnostic test and everything checked out OK.


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    Dear secondcoming86,


    Glad that the EurekaPROM arrived and that the install went well.


    The
    'bug' you're seeing is an oddity of a small percentage of Kemper's. From
    what we can tell, a corruption of the data occurs at the Kemper MIDI out,
    falsely triggering LEDs on the EurekaPROM-enabled FCB1010. What has helped
    a few customers that have seen this is to use short high quality MIDI
    cables and to put the Kemper & FCB1010 on the same power strip.
    Unfortunately, that hasn't always solved it for some customers.


    We've
    been trying to debug this for a while now - it's been difficult because it
    doesn't affect all Kempers, and it seems to be intermittent. This doesn't
    happen at all with the other effects units that have feedback, the
    AdrenaLinn 3 & Behringer series. Luckily no one has seen corruption on the
    MIDI input of the Kemper (i.e., effects randomly turning on & off).


    -eurekasound

    Similar problem here , with Uno4Kemper ...


    Latest firmware.


    Problems are:


    - Not always possible recognize the stomp status
    - Not always connect (able to change slots in performance mode).


    I thinks it's midi corruption , maybe when you enable and try to send program change through midi thru (to my other midi equipment).


    I hope buy the remote and finish this problem....

    This is very interesting to me as I've just switched to eureka prom and noticed this on my heavily modded fcb1010. I had thought I had a bad connection on my mod somewhere but perhaps it is not.

    Something tells me that it's hardware related since numerous updates have not remedied the problem. I have the PowerRack and I purchased it in May of 2014, I'm going to have to check my serial # but perhaps we can identify a serial or date range of affected units so that they can make it right. I'm dreading the thought of going through a warranty return and being without my Kemper for an extended period of time.

    NegativeZero,
    Exact same problem here with Eureka / FCB1010 / Kemper. I have one of the first (non-powered) KPAs released. When I sent Eureka (Dave Graham) an email about the problem in Feb 2015, they seemed to not really care. Their response was, 'we don't see that behavior in our testing unit, so it must be something unusual with yours'. Their recommended solutions were identical to yours. None of it worked. Purchased short midi cables, tried high quality 10 foot cables, tried power conditioners, powering-on routines, etc... nothing has worked. Dave Graham at Eureka has not contacted me with a solution in 2 months, and to be honest, I doubt they are spending time on the problem. Very disappointed in Eureka.


    Due to Eureka's inability to produce a working product, I've been forced to toss the FCB1010 / Eureka and go back to my Voodoo switcher... at least it was dependable. Time and money wasted !! Aaargh! I wish I had a solution to offer you, but you are certainly not alone.

    Took your advice TNTENT and I've opened a ticket on this issue.
    It's worth a shot in the event there is a known MIDI OUT level issue or corruption issue originating in the Kemper.
    FYI... I'm running ver 2.70 on the Kemper.

    Quote from tntent

    Anyone open a ticket with kemper? This seems to be an issue on the kemper side. It won't be fixed if they aren't working on it,.


    We do not have any reports regarding such problems with the bi directional protocol under the current firmware
    I can confirm that the bi directional protocol is working fine with FCB 1010 and the uno4kemper chip f.e.

    Quote from hjscheffler


    We do not have any reports regarding such problems with the bi directional protocol under the current firmware
    I can confirm that the bi directional protocol is working fine with FCB 1010 and the uno4kemper chip f.e.


    I don't have any problems with my FCB 1010 w Uno4kemper either. My firmware is the latest.
    S-J

    UPDATE.. so I opened a ticket with Kemper on the issue of the KPA to FCB1010 (w/ Eureka chip) where the Effects State Probing results in random flashing LED light activity on the FCB. Kemper support said that they have no other reported issues like this..... so it appears as though some of us have had the problem, but no issues were formally logged with Kemper.


    Anyway, they suggested I move to v3.02 (from 2.70) on the Kemper followed by a System Reset (System + Rig + Quick buttons). So I did that -- and still no improvement.
    Updated Kemper support on my findings, and they have just responded:
    -------------------------
    Dear LukeM,
    As i said before-we are not aware of any problems regarding the bi-directional protocol in the Profiler. We have literally 1000s of customers that use it everyday with all kinds of pedals (FCB, Liquid etc). If I would suggest that you contact the company that makes the Eureka ship and seek their assistance.If you have a chance to try the Profiler with a different MIDI board like a Uno4kemper equipped FCB you could verify that the Profiler is not the cause of the problem.
    -------------------------
    I'm not super-surprised by Kemper's response. It's not their equipment. I don't want to purchase the Uno4Kemper, just to be able to prove the Eureka Chip was a bad investment. So that's the end of the trail for me and the Eureka / FCB I think.


    NegativeZero & TNTent
    Any progress with you two? You both have the same problems with the FCB and EUREKA combo.


    Are we the only 3 people experiencing this?

    Quote from LukeM

    System Reset (System + Rig + Quick buttons). So I did that -- and still no improvement.


    Despite it is given as a tip a lot of times, usually, a System/Rig Reset does not fix anything, it just sets global settings to default. It can only fix user errors like "accidentially changed setting X".

    Quote from LukeM

    Are we the only 3 people experiencing this?


    Hello, I also have the problem with the Eureka PROM (lights on the FCB randomly flickering rapidly).
    The Kemper software version doesn't matter. I have had the Eureka for FCB running for more than 1 year.

    Not saying this is your problem but my eureka prom works now. If you are not aware the eureka prom will work with only 1 midi cable with no effects state. Though my connections all tested ok previously and previously were working with uno chip I retired all my connections with a better connector type and made better solder joints. Voila it's working! I would liken this to having a bad midi cable and data being corrupted. Also would like to point out kemper needed to be on first then power to fcb. It's worth a check to swap a midi cable

    Quote

    Not saying this is your problem but my eureka prom works now. If you are not aware the eureka prom will work with only 1 midi cable with no effects state. Though my connections all tested ok previously and previously were working with uno chip I retired all my connections with a better connector type and made better solder joints. Voila it's working! I would liken this to having a bad midi cable and data being corrupted. Also would like to point out kemper needed to be on first then power to fcb. It's worth a check to swap a midi cable


    TNTent, Sorry I'm a little confused. Which of these are you saying?:
    1) You replaced your MIDI connectors in the FCB with a better type, and then connected a SINGLE Midi cable -- and that works as a 'outbound' single cable setup (ie no Effects state probing -- which is what is needed here)
    2) You replaced your MIDI connectors in the FCB with a better type and re-soldered, re-connected 2 Midi cables again -- and then Effects state probing worked without the flashing lights?

    My fcb has been modded so that both midi cables and power were running through a cat 5 network cable. What I did was replace the jacks and redid my soldered connections and it started working even though connections tested positive previously. What I'm saying you should do is verify you aren't simply running in 1 cable mode(the fcb can do this without effects state) if you have a bad cable or poor connection (this happens) the fcb will act as if only the out cable is there hence no effects state..
    hopefully this clears things up for you. So in short, closest to your 2 except I don't have two actual midi cables

    Edited once, last by tntent ().

    I remember having this kind of issue with the Uno4Kemper quite a while ago but found a workaround....


    If you switch an FX Block which is empty to "on" state via the footcontroller, the FCB LED turns on, but the KPA doesn't do anything, except displaying the "This section is empty" message.
    If you then save this rig the empty FX block is saved in "on" state and as such reported to the MIDI Footcontroller the next time you recall the rig.


    The easy fix is: Next time you encounter this behaviour switch the wrong-lit FX stomp switch to "off" state on the FCB and save your Rig/performance again.
    And for the future try switch FX on/off only on the KPA frontpanel when programming your sounds.


    regards, René

    UPDATE May 15th.....
    So I had a friend with another FCB1010 bring his unit over (factory stock). He allowed me to install my EUREKA chip and try his controller. Result? Exact same problem.... no improvement.
    That tells me the problem people are having (ie Eureka / FCB / Kemper with random flashing LEDs) has nothing to do with the FCB1010.
    That's one less variable.


    It still might be:
    - Faulty EUREKA chip
    - Fault in Kemper's Midi Out port (although Kemper absolutely denied that as a possibility).


    Any ideas / progress with anyone else?