A Little bummed out.

    In theory the chances of units' sounding different from each other are no-greater than they are for (these are all hardware, obviously) ROMplers, analogue-modelling synths, samplers, FX units and so on.


    In 30 years of buying digital hardware of all the above flavours, I've not once encountered even a hint from my gear or anyone else's that a unit differed from others of the same model sound-wise.


    I mentioned output caps in another thread recently with regard to possible differences 'cause I've seen it manifest on old ROMplers, but even then, only when the units have been left powered up for extended periods and allowed to generate lots of heat or run in overly-hot environments... for extended periods. We're talking about units 20 to 30 years old here. The resulting sound was thinner and harsher in all cases; apparently the caps "dried out".

    It has been my experience that "amp in the room" people (no offence to any of you of course) have an affinity for guitar that is LOUD in the room, shakes your pant legs, and leaves the strings so alive with harmonics that just taking your hand from the strings immediately results in feedback.


    I can get that same effect with my FOH speakers with my guitar turned up in the mix (beyond where it should be I might add) and have had many a "amp in the room" person salivating over the sound of my KPA through FOH. I am pretty sure that my two PRX618S-XLF subs are going to thump out palm mutes and low notes better than any 4x12 ever could. The DSR112's on top are also going to have more clarity than an 12" speaker could provide .... it is just physics.


    Having said that, this level of sound is not practical if you want your band to sound great. I have A/B'd my rig to "amp in the room" guys from out front and have yet to lose the contest. I will agree that it doesn't sound like that up on stage, and certainly not through our IEM's, but out front, it just F****** ROCKS.


    If you play larger stages, or outdoors, than this isn't as big an issue. I have a feeling that many (if not most) of us don't play big venues as often as we do smaller indoor venues (especially if you live in Michigan as I do :) ).


    It is a tough transition for many though. It is a hard thing to give up that dominating volume of the amp in the room when you have spent decades having it.


    If you really want to see how evident this is, use an SPL meter on a "C" leveling profile to see just how loud an "amp in the room" is compared to most PA speakers. Mark the peaks as well as the average and I think it will surprise you.

    Quote from SonicExporer

    I am still really struggling though to coax any kind of convincing classic high-gain Marshall sound out of the KPA. Just can't get that Marshall grind/snarl. Can be fooled sometimes into thinking it is close but the minute you compare it against real amp tracks the KPA just doesn't get there for me, yet. Something going on in the midrange and missing some harmonic sweetness in the way top end. I just keep working at it for now.

    The problem a lot of people make is comparing the sound on a recording versus an actual real life amp. There are so many other variables when listening to a recording ( the player you use, speakers, the console that the unit was recorded on, sound engineer, etc, etc).


    When I compare the Kemper to a real live amp, they are very close. So much that you can't tell.


    Sometimes those sounds we want are not what the amp sounds like. Could be a big reason why so many guitarists search for that ever elusive tone.

    Quote from drog

    In a related note, the Audio Technica ATH-M50X headphones sound terrible with the Kemper. Really boxy, at first i thought they were ok for music but now all i hear is that same boxy sound with music as well. My Sony MDR7506 are too bright and lacking in bass but are much more flat and pleasant. Unfortunately i bought these too early before the kemper arrived and i can't return the AT headphones.

    Quote from chrismilne

    In a related note, the Audio Technica ATH-M50X headphones sound terrible with the Kemper. Really boxy, at first i thought they were ok for music but now all i hear is that same boxy sound with music as well. My Sony MDR7506 are too bright and lacking in bass but are much more flat and pleasant. Unfortunately i bought these too early before the kemper arrived and i can't return the AT headphones.

    Huh. Interesting.


    I have both the HD280's and the ATH-M50X and much prefer the ATH with my Kemper. Different strokes I guess :) Never tried the MDR7506.

    Quote from chrismilne

    In a related note, the Audio Technica ATH-M50X headphones sound terrible with the Kemper. Really boxy, at first i thought they were ok for music but now all i hear is that same boxy sound with music as well. My Sony MDR7506 are too bright and lacking in bass but are much more flat and pleasant. Unfortunately i bought these too early before the kemper arrived and i can't return the AT headphones.


    I'm a bit surprised with your views on the M50X as well. I own a pair and while it's not transparent, it doesn't sound boxy to me.

    Quote from drog
    Quote from nightlight

    I'm a bit surprised with your views on the M50X as well. I own a pair and while it's not transparent, it doesn't sound boxy to me.

    Terrible is probably a strong word (i've been frustrated recently :)), but for me at least there is way too much 150-300hz and it gives it a "boxy sound". Maybe i'm not describing it as you would. The Sony is very in your face sounding, but the high's are a little too pronounced and the low end is lacking. Though if you hold the headphones tighter on your head (mine are also quite old with replacement ear pads so it may cause some of the loss in low end) then the low end is pretty good. The M50X's are really tight and have a larger ear pad which might be another reason the bass response is so much higher. I'll give them a little bit more time to see if i'm going to keep them, i do prefer them when playing my electric durms as there is not enough bass in the Sony's for the kick to come through hard enough.


    As far as the Kemper goes i spent some more time playing through my Bogner and Fender Jensen speaker yesterday and it sounds pretty good. With clean sounds i was still struggling to get the low end punch/compression that my Egnater MTS or my Fender Princeton could do but they are full and clear. On higher gain through the bogner 1x12 (i'm not crazy about the 75 watt speakers in my Marshall 4x12, someday i'd like to chagne those or the cabinet) the gain tones were pretty similar to my Egatner MTS with a Salvado module so that's good i guess. It gives me easy transportability around the house and a lot of different tones (though i still find a ton of different profiles/profilers sound very similar when played through my cabinet).


    I'm looking at getting the Torpedo Captor when it comes out and try doing some direct profiling of my amps, though i've been reading on other threads that you can't Profile a Peavey XXX direct out without a mod due to a built in noise gate, and unfortunately my Fender Princeton needs some work to eliminate some noise issues. I would think over time I don't need to keep both the MTS system (though i've been waiting to see/hear the Synergy refresh of this system) and the Kemper. I will sell one or the other and get a good head i think to bridge the gap of the in the room playing (Mark V 25 maybe?, Friedman and the bigger Mesa's are probably out of my range right now).

    Quote from chrismilne

    Terrible is probably a strong word (i've been frustrated recently :)), but for me at least there is way too much 150-300hz and it gives it a "boxy sound". Maybe i'm not describing it as you would. The Sony is very in your face sounding, but the high's are a little too pronounced and the low end is lacking. Though if you hold the headphones tighter on your head (mine are also quite old with replacement ear pads so it may cause some of the loss in low end) then the low end is pretty good. The M50X's are really tight and have a larger ear pad which might be another reason the bass response is so much higher. I'll give them a little bit more time to see if i'm going to keep them, i do prefer them when playing my electric durms as there is not enough bass in the Sony's for the kick to come through hard enough.
    As far as the Kemper goes i spent some more time playing through my Bogner and Fender Jensen speaker yesterday and it sounds pretty good. With clean sounds i was still struggling to get the low end punch/compression that my Egnater MTS or my Fender Princeton could do but they are full and clear. On higher gain through the bogner 1x12 (i'm not crazy about the 75 watt speakers in my Marshall 4x12, someday i'd like to chagne those or the cabinet) the gain tones were pretty similar to my Egatner MTS with a Salvado module so that's good i guess. It gives me easy transportability around the house and a lot of different tones (though i still find a ton of different profiles/profilers sound very similar when played through my cabinet).


    I'm looking at getting the Torpedo Captor when it comes out and try doing some direct profiling of my amps, though i've been reading on other threads that you can't Profile a Peavey XXX direct out without a mod due to a built in noise gate, and unfortunately my Fender Princeton needs some work to eliminate some noise issues. I would think over time I don't need to keep both the MTS system (though i've been waiting to see/hear the Synergy refresh of this system) and the Kemper. I will sell one or the other and get a good head i think to bridge the gap of the in the room playing (Mark V 25 maybe?, Friedman and the bigger Mesa's are probably out of my range right now).


    Do you use headphone space with the headphones? I find that it's like a very light reverb that can make the sound of the Kemper through headphones less harsh. I would also turn off the pure cabinet parameter, since that's more suited to playing through a speaker, imo.


    As far as your experience with your cabs, try fooling around with the amp and cab parameters. I imagine since the cabs aren't FRFR, you should tweak your base tone to suit the speakers in them. Save them as a separate copy so you can use the original profiles when recording or playing through FRFR monitors. One thing to keep in mind that if you try to send a signal to FOH after you've tweaked the parameters, they will sound drastically different through the house speakers than what you hear on your cabs.

    I found that EQ Cut The Mix but no sign of Cut The Mud E-A Strings, not even anything close.