On the fence of buying... HMMM!!!! please answer :)

  • I borrowed a Kemper from the local music store, and right from the start I liked how easy the thing was to use, I was browsing through profiles in a couple of minutes trying things out.


    Just like expected (and read on the net) most stock profiles wasn't the best but then again, this is HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE. I found three profiles I kinda liked, which were all based on 5150 amps... Hahaha!


    Anyway, I also tried the profiler. I COULDN'T GET THE SOUND THE SAME AS THE REAL AMP.


    I was profiling an Engl e430 Tube Toner (e530 floorboard version) and I did profile it like 5 times, and did refining at least 5 times EVERY time, but it wasn't there. And yes, I was following the included books instructions from start to end.


    Notice; the difference wasn't huge, or even small, the difference was MINOR.


    But that's also a difference. I was expecting 100% the same.


    Then I started going out on Soundcload and searching for "5150 kemper" and found a lot of comparisons of peoples real amp and profile; GUESS WHAT;


    I heard the same subtle differences in OTHER peoples profiles... And not just one or two, but just about EVERY profile had the same "different sound"


    I have VERY sensitive ears, even tho I don't like "clinical sounding recordings", I like a little dirt and stuff, but I still have a good ear for differences.


    I even invited my girlfriend (who also has music recording as hobby, mostly electronic tho) to listen to the tracks I recorded and she pointed out the exact same differences as I could hear



    Can most people not hear these differences?


    Now... I can live with "different" because it does NOT sound worse. That's for sure. It does not sound bad at all. I'm really impressed with Kempers sound quality, and I despise most digital amp sim and whatever, all of those have a unpleasant high frequency fizz that most people know of, and I couldn't hear that with the Kemper, so that's good.


    Is close enough? Because if this is what the Kemper offers and I'm not doing something wrong, then I might go ahead and buy one.


    Oh... And the Kemper has an awesome tuner too :love:

  • I'm not having much experiences with profiling but if you did not, please read this: http://www.wikpa.org/Profiling_Tutorials
    Especially the Mic-Stuff. That would be the most important thing when you do a camparison via DAW.
    And if you are able to hear so much minor differences you would be able to setup EQ and stuff until you are satisfied.
    There are so much parameters to deal with and they are exactly for that.

  • You could easily A/B the real amp vs. the Kemper during the profiling session - did you do this?


    In case yes - do you have any soundclips to let us hear the differences?

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  • like Armin said, we need recordings.


    also we need to know how you were monitoring things,
    and tbh most perceived differences in sound are due to differences in the monitoring volume of the amp and the profile,
    if those are not exactly the same you'll always get the a different impression.

  • I think he said, that ha had recorded both. So the volume in a DAW would be identical. But as Armin said, a example
    would be helpful. Perhaps he can upload both tracks so that we can compare as he can.

  • Also depends on how he was profiling; as far as I could see from quickly browsing the manual, the e430 has various outputs, some intended for feeding a console (with cab sim), some for feeding a power amp, and a powered output for guitar cabs and headphones (!). To be honest though, I've found the Profilers strength to be in profiling the entire typical recording signal chain, rather than the output of a preamp (though I haven't yet tried making Direct profiles with FW 3.x).

  • Nothing is 100%... ;)


    but there's a few points that need clarification for me.


    For example, what was the monitor set up situation for A/B comparison?


    In my experience, it does take some time and tweaking to profile well and also to get the right profile sound.


    Try again, keep an open mind and perhaps read about the profiler a bit more...user error is the most common problem leading to frustration.


    we are here to help! :)

  • I understand I'm not an expert on this field, but I'm still very sure I did things by the book (I mean... I DID follow the included instructions)


    I monitor in both headphones and monitor speakers, and I hear the difference in both.


    And I hear the same difference on my internet laptop on Soundcloud listening to other peoples profiles, with cheap AKG headphones.


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    Here's two files one with real e430 and one with the Kemper profile. First you will notice there's a big difference, then it would be fun if somebody could hear which is the Kemper and not 8o

  • A sample has sensibly more definition and clarity while the B one is somewhat darker.


    I like more the A sample and guess this is the real amp...but hope I'm wrong ;)


    EDIT: well....there ain't such a big difference though, while listening to them some more times. more definition is the right word to me

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  • Sounds like the gain on A is higher.
    As Sambrox said, the Profiler is better at the cab -> mic thing than direct profiles.
    I assume it's electrical error - impedances and drift - that often make the gain slightly higher than it is. I've had it happen before.


    The on-board controls are exactly for that purpose, as Hal2000 said. If you still have access to the Profiler, try reducing the gain a bit, maybe lowering 'tube shape' - they're both available while you're profiling the amp. I believe it will be easily handled.

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  • A sample has sensibly more definition and clarity while the B one is somewhat darker.


    I like more the A sample and guess this is the real amp...but hope I'm wrong ;)


    EDIT: well....there ain't such a big difference though, while listening to them some more times. more definition is the right word to me


    You hear the same differences like me :)


    On my IPad speaker it sounds like the noise gate is up too much on the b clip.


    There's no noise gate at all on these clips ;)


    Sounds like the gain on A is higher.
    As Sambrox said, the Profiler is better at the cab -> mic thing than direct profiles.
    I assume it's electrical error - impedances and drift - that often make the gain slightly higher than it is. I've had it happen before.


    The on-board controls are exactly for that purpose, as Hal2000 said. If you still have access to the Profiler, try reducing the gain a bit, maybe lowering 'tube shape' - they're both available while you're profiling the amp. I believe it will be easily handled.


    Okay, that may be true, but I have no good way to profile a real amp at the moment (dont wanna lug my whole studio rig to the rehearsal hahaha) so I will leave that to the experts out there ;)


    I wont spoil which one is which yet ;)

  • Oh man, my ears seems to be not as good as yours and as from the other posters. When i have to repeat often the tracks
    and must concentrate much to hear a difference then i would be glad to have made such a profile. For me it would be good
    enough. And imagine that track in a band context with all other instruments...
    I think the Kemper resolution is too fine for my bad ears. Perhaps i should grade down to a POD ;)

  • Hello Cederik,
    how were you comparing the amp and the profile when... profiling?
    A mic'ed sound can't... sound like the amp in the room unless you use specific attentions (a test mic, killing early reverberations etc.).
    The comparison should be made between the profile heard through monitors and the amp (mic'ed in the exact same way) heard through the same monitors from a different room.


    And how did you record the Profiler and the amp in the clip? Was the mic left in the same exact position as when profiling?

  • Oh man, my ears seems to be not as good as yours and as from the other posters. When i have to repeat often the tracks
    and must concentrate much to hear a difference then i would be glad to have made such a profile. For me it would be good
    enough. And imagine that track in a band context with all other instruments...
    I think the Kemper resolution is too fine for my bad ears. Perhaps i should grade down to a POD ;)


    Haha you know what, I would personally love to "be satisfied with whatever sounds good" but I always notice tiny stupid differences in stuff... Gah.


    I think you're better off with the Kemper dude ;)


    Actually, if the mix is good the differences can be heard even when there's bass and drums on top.

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    There's a good example; the mix is really good and the guitar sounds are amazing. But I CAN hear difference between the real deal and Kemper.


    Note, that these differences doesn't really matter in the long run, but they are audiable when comparing next to each other. If I bought that guys album I would never guess it was a Kemper (unless I knew, haha), so that's how small the differences are.



    Hello Cederik,
    how were you comparing the amp and the profile when... profiling?
    A mic'ed sound can't... sound like the amp in the room unless you use specific attentions (a test mic, killing early reverberations etc.).
    The comparison should be made between the profile heard through monitors and the amp (mic'ed in the exact same way) heard through the same monitors from a different room.


    And how did you record the Profiler and the amp in the clip? Was the mic left in the same exact position as when profiling?


    Monitors AND headphones. I was comparing during profiling in the "kemper amp" and "reference amp" and no matter how many times I re-profiled and refined with hard chord strumming, it never really got to sound similar.


    The Engl e430 was lined, so no room ambience was interfering with my critical listening.


  • all A/B comparisons really need to be reamped to be meaningful.


    what firmware are you using?
    on SYSTEM page 13 - is the 'LFC Off' tickbox empty? (it should be)


    but anyway it should be noted that the Profiler's core concept is to capture tube amp -> cab -> mic setups.
    I have no idea what kind of speaker simulation is going on in this device, but the real test would be the aforementioned setup.


    or you could take a direct profile (no speaker sim) and either compare that to the preamps direct signal (quite ugly, I know),
    just to take the speaker sim out of the equation.


  • I don't have the Kemper at home anymore, the music store only let me borrow it for 3 days to make up my mind about it before buying, so I can't check what version it is but it's probably 3.0 or later but Im not sure.



    I DID take direct profile without speaker sim... And yes I did compare the preamp signal a lot before trying the cabsim.
    And no matter what I did it didn't sound exactly the same.

  • We might be missing the entire point about the Kemper profiler. I personally was sold on the idea of getting a very close copy of around 600+ tube amps into an object about the size of a small toolbox and then being able to go and Gig/Jam /whatever with all I really needed and plug into a half-decent FRFR PA . I'm VERY happy with mine. ^^

  • Hi Cederick


    I get where you are coming from and I too am very critical with my A/B'ing, but I offer you the following:-


    - both A and B sound great
    - they are very close
    - A has more zing / sizzle


    Whichever is which, give me 15 seconds with either and I can make them indistinguishable from each other - just tweak the Definition and Clarity of either and any difference will be so small as to be indistinguishable


    Please don't misunderstand me when I say this as I mean nothing negative by it ........ the Kemper [ or the Axe FX ] will get you %95 there no worries ..... the marginal %5 you hear missing is more than made up for by everything else both units can do.


    However, if %95 isn't good enough for you - and that's fine if that's the case - then best to probably not go with the Kemper or the Axe FX.


    Either way, all the best .


    Ben