Automatic clean sense and possibility to save guitar for performance.

  • Well, if I have a guitar with hotter pus I do want it to saturate an amp more than my other guitar. I definitely do not want the two to behave the same.


    Also, DS has to do with the distortion volume, not its amount.
    A stronger pu will have louder cleans, so most chances are that once you set CS in order for the guitar to not overload the A\D converter, the relationship between cleans and distorted sounds remains the same.
    That's why the standard suggested procedure consists in setting CS and leaving DS to 0: change the latter only if you feel you'd like to have a different ration between the volume of distortion and the volume of cleans, which is not something you'd take for granted beforehand.
    Leaving DS to its default values would be the smartest move, and the easiest one.


    :)


    I don't know what makes you think, that DS has something to do with volume. From WiKPA: "A pre-gain level adjustment of the "distortion path". It results in more/less distortion and applies to all rigs." Also the manual says nothing about DS having an impact on the volume of distorted sounds.

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)

  • Well, increasing the gain in an amplifier also increases the signal level...
    This is what CS is for. From the wiKPA:


    Quote

    When you increase gain, you will typically increase volume. This is due to a gain stage boosting volume to distort a following stage. Clean sens exists to help balance the volume between the clean and dirty settings within a profile.


    Also, from the wiKPA:


    Quote

    Those parameters also affect how loud a patch will be when raising and lowering gain. For example, If distorted sens is low as you add gain from clean it won't get louder; but, as you back off gain it will get louder. Raising distorted sens will add volume as you add gain. Very cool feature actually.

  • Fiddled around with DS last weekend and couldn't hear much of a difference in volume. Also there are other opinions regarding "more gain = more volume". Most people say "more gain = more compression = less perceived volume. And above that I reread a lot of posts from the mothership regarding DS and it was never mentioned that it has an impact on volume.


    I guess what I'm trying to say is: I'm not convinced, Gianfranco. :)

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)

  • The Thomas Dill tutorial shows how to set cs and ds. It is important to use an appropriate profile when setting.I can definitely hear a volume difference in changing settings. I have a strat and a les Paul and use these feature to try and balance out the natural differences in the guitars outputs. The strat needs +7.5 clean sense.

    You're damned if you do and damned if you don't

  • Fiddled around with DS last weekend and couldn't hear much of a difference in volume. Also there are other opinions regarding "more gain = more volume". Most people say "more gain = more compression = less perceived volume. And above that I reread a lot of posts from the mothership regarding DS and it was never mentioned that it has an impact on volume.
    I guess what I'm trying to say is: I'm not convinced, Gianfranco. :)


    Ha, no problem mate :D


    I'd discuss against the value of "opinions" tho: luckily, electroacoustics is one of those fields where opinions don't matters LOL


    True, more gain = more compression. But what follows is not trivial.


    Imagine a sinusoid. Adding gain that induces compression does not mean to lower (cut) its peak and leave the rest of the wave as it was (as its commonly shown in the diagrams that explain harmonic distortion): it rather means to magnify the size of the wave, so that its peak overflows the upper limit hence the peak is cut.
    Now, if you look at the surface of the wave included between the ground level and the upper limit, of course it's now larger. So it can't possibly have a lower energy (a wave's energy is proportional to its surface\shape).
    In a clean sound the peak (the impulsive value) can be very high, but the remaining volume is much lower than a sinusoid pushed so much that it practically becomes a rectangle. So, in a heavily distorted sound you hear less peak, but you also hear it much longer (sustain), and the overall energy is times higher.
    Note: I'm not considering human sensitivity to frequencies here, just the measurable energy.


    Summing up, "more gain = more compression = less perceived peak volume and higher overall energy". IOW, less power, more energy.


    It's like two cars, one running 1 km in 4" and stopping there because there's no more fuel in the tank and the other one arriving much later but running say 10 km overall witht he same amount of fuel. The former has expressed much more power, the second has expressed\used much more energy.
    There are actually many more variables I'd have to consider in order to make this a scientific example, but it should give an idea.


    :)

  • Lol, I understand nearly nothing of what you've written. All I know is that fiddling around with DS has almost no impact on the perceived volume, at least to me. What are you trying to prove?

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)

  • Sorry for not having been able to describe it clearly, English language doesn't help me...
    My point is that a distorted sound got by increasing gain has got more energy than a clean sound.


    :)

  • Gianfranco, I didn't want to say that you described it not good/clearly enough. It is my fault because I suck @ such technical things.


    But let me throw a new argument in: If DS were meant for volume balancing, it would have had a comparable impact on volume as CS. But is doesn't.

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)