Display MoreHonestly,
why would anybody want to do that?
Have a nice sunday:)
August Burns Red is by no means a “tone chasing” type of band, but they use profiles of their own 5150s and mic the cabs live because they feel anything they heard from the profile that wasn’t authentic to the real tone was hidden when micing the cabs.
Exactly! Especially Top Jimi studio profiles are great through monitors but the merged ones are the worst I've tried with a real cab...
Btw still laughing with your post about electric shock treatment...
It doesn’t make sense to me that a profile would sound good through monitors as a studio profile, but the DI profile wouldn’t sound good through a speaker cabinet. I’ll admit there might be some noticeable difference, but not sounding good at all? It just doesn’t make sense to me.
August Burns Red is by no means a “tone chasing” type of band, but they use profiles of their own 5150s and mic the cabs live because they feel anything they heard from the profile that wasn’t authentic to the real tone was hidden when micing the cabs.
I understand their point, but if you have a loud drummer, going DI is a real bonus. My FOH engineer played me some recordings of our miced cabs and the cymbals were as loud as guitar in one of the mics. So separation is key to getting a good mix out front at times. Obviously bigger stages are fine, but we are not always guaranteed that!
I use a cab on stage AND go direct.
It sounds good through a cab but I don't mike to take out the "mike placement" variable.
I think that is more the nature of "why would you"... I used to just mike like a regular cab but I see no point now as resolves the consistent signal, bleed etc as well...
When I play live with a particular band, our sound lady insists on micing the cab onstage as well as running DI to FOH and mixing both signals left and right. We get told we sound great live, so I don't argue!
As for TopJimi merged profiles, there was a time when he wasn't doing the merging process correctly and conceded as much here on the forum once. Since then, I think his merged profiles sound great. I especially like the Brown sound pack (the Cabs are awesome with my own DA profiles).
I understand their point, but if you have a loud drummer, going DI is a real bonus. My FOH engineer played me some recordings of our miced cabs and the cymbals were as loud as guitar in one of the mics. So separation is key to getting a good mix out front at times. Obviously bigger stages are fine, but we are not always guaranteed that!
this!!!!! Mic bleed will always muddy a mix
It doesn’t make sense to me that a profile would sound good through monitors as a studio profile, but the DI profile wouldn’t sound good through a speaker cabinet. I’ll admit there might be some noticeable difference, but not sounding good at all? It just doesn’t make sense to me.
hey Sunshine, I am not going to try to answer for Jimmy… I’m sure he will chime in… My opinion is that top Jimmy profiles sounds good to me through PA and monitors when I am using the ‘complete profile’…
When I use one of his merged profiles into a real guitar cabinet, (and obviously turn off cabinet when doing so) the resulting tone I get is completely unrealistic through any of my Bogner 4×12 cabinets and any of my old Marshall 4×12 cabinets. What I mean is, it does not at all sound, feel or react like a real tube amplifier through a guitar cabinet… in fact, The results were horrible. Plain and simple.
Hope this makes sense…
The specific merged profiles I was trying to get sounding ‘believable’ through 4×12 cabinets were the Van Halen Brown ones and his 68 Marshall Super Lead…
hope you’re having a great day, bro!
hey Sunshine, I am not going to try to answer for Jimmy… I’m sure he will chime in… My opinion is that top Jimmy profiles sounds good to me through PA and monitors when I am using the ‘complete profile’…When I use one of his merged profiles into a real guitar cabinet, (and obviously turn off cabinet when doing so) the resulting tone I get is completely unrealistic through any of my Bogner 4×12 cabinets and any of my old Marshall 4×12 cabinets. What I mean is, it does not at all sound, feel or react like a real tube amplifier through a guitar cabinet… in fact, The results were horrible. Plain and simple.
Hope this makes sense…
The specific merged profiles I was trying to get sounding ‘believable’ through 4×12 cabinets were the Van Halen Brown ones and his 68 Marshall Super Lead…
It is possible that a setup sounds great over the mics, but the in-the-room sound is 'horrible' to use your word.
This can happen when mics are used that exhibit the proximity effect, and the effect is really pronounced.
Because of the low frequency build-up the mics cause, the head would have to be set rather trebly, resulting in an unpleasant sound in-the-room, but a balanced and powerful sound in the control room.
Yes Don, the profiles actually sound pretty good over a PA or thru my in ear monitors, it’s just through a guitar cabinet where they really struggle…
So, I guess they do what they were designed to do,
This video shows exactly, exactly what I am experiencing when I am doing a direct profile of my Bogners, Wizard MTL, Aiken Sabre, my old Marshalls - all of my amplifiers… I am getting this same result that is shown very well in this video.
The real amplifier is just bigger and sweeter, and this doesn’t even take into consideration the ‘feel’ which is also different…
Guitar speakers colour tone. Heck, even the construction of a cabinet colours tone.
As a result, you will not get the full Kemper experience when plugging into a Marshall 4x12 or EVH 2x12.
That is, unless you profiled the amp you’re using with the cabinet that you’re going to play with live.
The underwhelmed reaction of many users to the KPA stems imo from their inability to sculpt the tones like they hear in their head. So I’ll just say, profile your own sound for the best impact. And don’t sell the amp collection, Orville.
This is especially true when using a powered Kemper through a non-FRFR Cab.
I’d suggest using a passive FRFR cabinet if you want to have your 3rd party profiles to sound accurate through a Cabinet. Something like an Atomic should float your boat. Maybe not just one, but two, mounted n poles, for that pants flapping kind of power.
This video shows exactly, exactly what I am experiencing when I am doing a direct profile of my Bogners, Wizard MTL, Aiken Sabre, my old Marshalls - all of my amplifiers… I am getting this same result that is shown very well in this video.
The real amplifier is just bigger and sweeter, and this doesn’t even take into consideration the ‘feel’ which is also different…
All that said, I believe rather than the feel, it is the immediacy of a tub amp that makes the difference. There is just a hint of latency with the Kemper, not a deal breaker, but it’s there. This results in a slight disconnect when you’re playing, with the Kemper a couple of miscroseconds behind. This is not an audible effect, but your brain perceives that latency as things not reacting instantly.
I am with you Keith,
The kpa sounds great and so many guys have big eyes when they hear the sound and ask what ht heck is this green monster. I love the sounds too but I tried hours and hours to get the smack which John Petrucci gets in this vid ( have a look at 3:30 and 7:40 and I think everyone can hear what I mean and there is only the 1x12 a little later they switch to the 4x12....). This sound is absolutly killer in the room I think but I only can reach prox. 80% with the kpa and I have a bunch of profiles of this amp ( Guido, Cili and so on). No profile comes in the ballpark of this punch because I think too what the guy in the second vid above said: The kemper has another bass......Believe me, I tried every trick to reach this sound ( eq in front, eq behind, cabs, compressor, amp compressor, every amp parameter.....) I got cool sounds but not 1:1 the vid sound or the power behind ( what I hear so far). But I am happy whit the sounds I got. Enough for everything.
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Cheers Frank
Interesting what he says about using 1x12”s on stage in the video. Perhaps some of our power amp users can try with a smaller cab and report back?
I have this amp, it is quite awesome.
You’ve probably answered this in one of the threads @SQUAREHEAD, but are you switching off the Cab button on the front, or turning Cabs off on monitor out in the output menu?
This video shows exactly, exactly what I am experiencing when I am doing a direct profile of my Bogners, Wizard MTL, Aiken Sabre, my old Marshalls - all of my amplifiers… I am getting this same result that is shown very well in this video.
The real amplifier is just bigger and sweeter, and this doesn’t even take into consideration the ‘feel’ which is also different…
just to be clear:
are we talking about Direct Amp Profiles taken with a suitable, neutral sounding, DI box that can handle speaker (!) level signals, taken from between the speaker out (!) of your amp (not the fx send or similar pre-power amp outs), while the cabinet you use to compare the Profile to the amp head connected to the DI box and no load boxes, power brakes are present etc.?
Are you using a neutral power amp (on par with the Power Heads internal digital power amp) to play the Profile through the cabinet?
You’ve probably answered this in one of the threads @SQUAREHEAD, but are you switching off the Cab button on the front, or turning Cabs off on monitor out in the output menu?
yes.
just to be clear:are we talking about Direct Amp Profiles taken with a suitable, neutral sounding, DI box that can handle speaker (!) level signals, taken from between the speaker out (!) of your amp (not the fx send or similar pre-power amp outs), while the cabinet you use to compare the Profile to the amp head connected to the DI box and no load boxes, power brakes are present etc.?
Are you using a neutral power amp (on par with the Power Heads internal digital power amp) to play the Profile through the cabinet?
Im playing thru Bogner 4x12 (or other Old Marshall cab) with ref amp and Powered Kemper...
I'm using Countryman Type 85 DI which is the best out of the 8 I have tried...
Connections are perfect, cables are perfect, levels are perfect, no load boxes or attenuaters
The resulting prfile is close enough that I can tell the Kemper is working, it's just that Bigness
and open tone that's missing.
The profile sounds congested and fizzy in the top, the low end is there but it's not a tight low end, it's too low and it's different from ref amplifier. The easiest way to describe what I am experiencing is this last YT video I posted of the Rectifier, just go directly from kemper tone to real amp tone and that's it. Much easier than me trying to put into words. Watch him trying to get the "harshness" removed from Kemper profile...
Listen to how BIG the real Mesa sounds... Listen to the top end sweetness of the real amp.
Kemper is the best thing ever live...ever...ever.
yes.
Hehe, but which? It wasn't a yes/no question 
I think we're just recycling the same things in the conversation, but I'll do a final attempt to organise my thoughts and clear up some (in my opinion) misconseptions I see repeatedly here:
-There is no guitar sound that "translates". Whatever you do, if the sound engineer cuts all your middle and treble at his desk, you won't be heard.
-There is no guitar sound that "cuts" in general. For example, Petrucci's tone is much different than Slash's tone which is much different than Doug Aldrich's tone which is different to Mayer's tone which differs than Slipknot's guitar tone. They all "cut", but in completely different band mixes. The sound guy will create a mix and will alter you sound as much as he believes he has to, in order to achive a clean and pleasing outcome according to his taste and ears. If for example your bassist's tone is mid-heavy, or your keyboard player plays with three hands in 6 octaves range 
, you won't "cut" as easily.
-When I gig with my tube rig, I always carry a 57 with me and I position it myself. That way I know EXACTLY what I'm giving to the sound engineer, as someone would know with the master output of the Kemper. It's the exactly same thing.
-Top Jimi merged profiles are awful with real cabs. I've also tried the Brown ones, the Friedman BE and the Super lead. The studio ones are great, but the merged when LOUD with real cabs are so plastic, loose and thin that no miking technique would make them sound good. In fact I wonder how could somebody use them live with a real cab lol!
-The "full Kemper experience" is very subjective...someone wants to mess with a hundred sounds and effects and doesn't care for the response of the real thing but someone else needs 5 great tube tones AND the smooth feel of a real amp.
-Mic bleeding exists from the beggining of time . Most sound engineers are used to mic bleeding and it doesnt stop them from making great mixes, in the studio or live. In fact, most of them expect it, especially in live situations. Even if the guitar signal is "clean", there will be so much bleeding from the drums to all other mikes.
-Tube amps and guitar cabs exist from the beggining of time . All the great records we've heard and all the great live shows we have enjoyed have guitar tones from real amps and real cabs.
So, what exactly are we discussing here?
Are we talking about "real cab vs frfr"? If we do, the answer has been given many years now. Think of your favorite player's tone: It's coming from a real cab, in the studio or live. But I don't think that's the discussion here.
Are we talking about "kemper vs tube amp"? My first though is "for the studio Kemper, for gigging I don't know yet", which leads us to the next question:
"Kemper live better with a real cab or an FRFR"?
The response of the real amp and cab is part of the instrument for the moderate/advanced blues/rock guitar player, either we like that or not.
So, if Kemper can deliver that, it's fine for gigging. But can it? I don't think so. It is close, but I have mentioned numerous times in my previous posts the annoying unnatural excessive pick attack that can't be reduced, and the notes that thin out at high strings and high frets when used with a real cab at high volumes. And of course, many others have mentioned it and I posted the links.
Whoever wants to use an FRFR is free to do it. I guess that way is better if we take for granted that Kemper cannot reproduce the original tone and response of a tube amp with real cabs. But come on guys, the best FRFR with the best profile cannot come even close to the sound and the feel of a real tube amp and a real cab in your face.
If you are happy with it, fine by me, everybody can do what he wants with his tone in the free world! 
But the ideal thing would be to get the tube sound with the Kemper with a real cab so when gigging to get the feel and the response AND the great sound and the effects etc...
Anyway sorry for the big text, just my 2 cents... 
