Line 6 Helix - next gen guitarist's wet dream..?

I'm very interested to see how the Helix plays out in the next while, especially when it is in general release. While Line 6 made a big deal about the new HD models when the HD500 was first released, they did not really change the world with their quality. Personally I found their clean tones could be good, but the distorted tones were always lacking and I felt it was a compromise at best. I eventually mothballed the HD500 and started using a X3 as I preferred its distorted and crunch tones to the HD series. Of course all of these are hopelessly obsolete in my rig now that the Kemper has arrived.

So they now have the HX models? Are they going to be that much better? Will they truly compare with the Fractal models? I hope they are as that will push the modeling industry forward.

Frankly after I have dived into the Kemper world, I cannot imagine going back to any other modeler, as with everything else you have a fixed number of models that you are forced to work with. Say Line 6 doesn't have a good Dumble model in the Helix; you are just out of luck. But with the Kemper, all you have to do is find an amp and profile it. The Kemper does not limit you to whatever amp models the manufacturer decides to develop, and you don't have to beg the modeler maker to get the amp model you want, hoping they will eventually develop it.

This weekend I made my first profile; of my Dumble ODS #102 (Robben Ford)/Dumbleator clone. It has a very specific tone and dynamic response that I worked hard to achieve by building the amp and carefully sourcing the components, and the profiles caught 95% of that tone and response. It is such a thrill to finally have that tone and be able to use it live; it has become my #1 profile (and I plan to put it on Rig Exchange when I get a chance). I cannot imagine for a second going back to any other modeler. It would be impossible to get that same result from the Helix and its fixed amp types.

Just a thought -I was surprised initially by the $1499 price, but that is retail. The HD500x still "retails" for $699, with street at $499. I wonder if this will be the same. Pair that with the typical GC 10-15% coupon and you can probably get the Helix for around $1k? That makes it the good "mid-price point" between POD and Kemper/AXE.

Quote from mbenigni

I'm personally pretty excited about the Helix - mainly from a UI and form-factor point of view - but I agree they chose a pretty awful sound to "show off" in their video. It's that tired, old, phasey 90's gain. They need to showcase the HX just doing a straight up Fender sound, a straight up AC30, a straight up JTM-45... assuming it can.

News to me - and one more thing to be excited about!

This is one area where Line 6 comes out of the gates way ahead of Kemper: effects. We'll all have our opinions as to whose effects sound better, but Line 6 has a wider variety and more flexibility here. Tape delays, spring reverbs, etc. etc. all come with the territory. I'm kind of tired of waiting for these things - among others - to arrive on the Kemper.

I don't expect the Helix amps to sound as good as the Kemper's, but if they're even in the ballpark, there are a lot of other practical arguments for jumping ship. At least for guys like me, who prefer a simple rig over a pile of hand selected gear and a mile of cable. For guys who don't mind a more complex rig, and have the means, you could even argue for owning both - the Helix would make an awfully nice footcontroller + outboard effects unit for a Kemper.

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Agreed, the Helix looks ideal for foot controller & FX use with the Kemper... Love those 'LiquidFoot+' -esque
screens for each button (my Kemper remote arrived today and im a little disappointed by those I, II, III, IV switches also wished the display of the remote could change colour just like the LCD on the Profiler... Especially for the price point it's at! you just can't beat that kind of integration though...)

Like you mention, it would be cool to use the L6 fx with the KPA - I can't get a certain tremolo sound on my Kemper which is a little frustrating, really hope they add to the FX next as they've basically covered everything else! Though, if you were to use it in conjunction the amount of cables would rise pretty sharply I would have thought, unless you got the rack based Helix (but that takes up 3U and is PRICEY too)

More details...

http://line6.com/support/topic/14264-helix-faq/

Quote from meambobbo

Hey at least they have power switches. Also nice to see ir loading. But i agree. Lets see what the amp sims sound like through a quality ir. Seems the cab/mic engine is a bit more advanced, but have yet to see if they sorted out phase issues when using parallel cabs

So NOW they provide a proper power socket, "real" cabs, I'm guessing X3-style DI and amp USB recording and "proper" volume-knob response. If the latency is greatly improved as well, I think I'll puke. Seriously. I hung in there 'till the HD almost (well, it did, really) did my head in big-time. A hint that something addressing the plethora of concerns was on its way would've saved a whole lot of heartache. I mean, the company must've been aware that folks like you and I were sweatin' on shifting allegiances in a big way. I made the move to Kemper in a state of desperation, punching way above my weight budget-wise.

I'll bet that at least most of the scratchiness of the HD is gone too, BobMan. Sickening, really.

So much for the hype surrounding the "new" HD DNA modelling, the apparent platform for all things to come in the foreseeable future.

Quote from meambobbo

Im taking a wait and see approach.

Same here, although I'd like to think I cannot be lured back in any sort of a hurry, or at all for that matter. I'm just miffed that my since-day-dot loyalty was tried and stretched for so damned long by the HD; it's the stuff of nightmares for me, and the mere mention of the letters "HD" bring up similar feelings to those I experience when I think of the many best friends I've lost to tragedies such as bush fires and cancer. I got burned bad, man. Real bad.

The timing, from my perspective, is nauseating. I only received my Kemper a month ago. If this had been a year down the track, it'd have been different story. It's a rare state of affairs for me, but I'm now officially speechless.

I'm open to suggestions and tips on how to cope! LOL

Quote from mattt67

wow that's what the Remote should have looked like !

Why? Do you stare at the floor all the time during the gigs?

Well, if he's an EMO... LOL

I just posed the question on the L6 thread as to whether or not the throughput latency had been addressed. That, above all else (and there was a lot of "else"), made the HD units unplayable for me; I felt disconnected from the guitar. All sense of immediacy was gone...

For those hoping to use the Helix as a MIDI foot controller I have cut and pasted some information I found regarding MIDI use. (This was originally posted at FAS forum, cut and paste material is sourced mostly from TGP with some L6 forums)

Quote

Sounds like the Helix (floor version) will work pretty well for my limited needs as a MIDI controller while adding a bunch of cool extras. Attached is some pertinent info about MIDI capabilities for anyone interested in the product as a MIDI controller.It looks like the Helix Control at launch will not be able to be used as a general MIDI foot controller. It does have a USB port, so the potential does exist in the future for them to add USB MIDI support. Not ideal for a computer-less solution, but companies make boxes that can convert USB MIDI to 5-pin as long as the product is USB Class compliant.Promising stuff.
Palico, on 11 Jun 2015 - 4:47 PM, said:
On the Expression pedals, will the Mission Engineer pedals for L6 work with it? Or will it use new ones?

Yes, Mission's Line 6 pedals will work.

spider1974, on 11 Jun 2015 - 5:30 PM, said:
Question: How deep would be implemented MIDI command for control external devices? It will be close to solution like Ground Control Pro? I.e.:
under one switch it send for example messages for 5 devices on different channels and for every device it send 1-10 CC#, PC.

It's only one message per switch (or two values, for CC Toggle and CV/Expression Toggle messages), but you also get up to six buffered commands that are instantly spit out when recalling the preset, even if they're not assigned to a switch.

duncann, on 11 Jun 2015 - 5:39 PM, said:
Another MIDI question. Can the device be controlled by a DAW, USB-to-MIDI?

Yes, Helix sends and receives MIDI over USB. We have a setlist of template presets that include DAW remote capability.

PRSGuy, on 11 Jun 2015 - 5:46 PM, said:
Did you change the way the expression pedal switches between exp1 and exp2? I was always uncomfortable with the amount of force necessary to switch between the two.

Does the front panel operate in a "live" mode (display patch info versus signal chain or whatever)?

Do the effect tails remain across patch changes?

If you don't use external expression pedals, EXP 1 and EXP 2 switch in a similar manner, but you can do crazy routing things in the signal flow that can preclude this.

90% of your day-to-day editing is accomplished from the Home screen. The notion of multiple edit pages was actively avoided.

Helix won't have preset spillover at launch. We have some cool ideas on how this might be implemented in the future, but we can't promise anything. The good news is that Helix's routing is incredibly flexible, so you can do all sorts of inter-preset switching that can emulate spillover.

spider1974, on 11 Jun 2015 - 6:11 PM, said:
Six commands like CC, PC? or SysEx on different channels?

The six instant commands can be CC, Bank/Prog (MSB, LSB, PC), MMC, External Amp 1/2/1&2, or CV. MIDI commands can follow the Base Channel or be set to their own channel.

No creation of big custom SysEx strings, but if it's something you'd like to see, IdeaScale that sucka!

kquann, on 11 Jun 2015 - 6:47 PM, said:
Can the Helix Control unit be used as a MIDI controller (MIDI in/out ports) without the corresponding rackmount Helix?

Will The Helix Control be backwards compatible with existing POD HDs?

Helix Control has no MIDI jacks. Its USB port is designated "for potential future use (TBD)."

Currently, it only works with Helix Rack, but later—who knows?

EDIT: Additional info - Two way communication to allow scribble strip to sync with external devices is not in the launch. Kind of puts a damper on my plans for it, but at this price point and feature set, I can live with that. I'll probably start an IdeaScale post begging for the functionality. Will edit post and link the thread if anyone else wants to +1 it or however their system works.
Kingjimmi said: ↑
Any word on MIDI foot controller capabilities? Two way MIDI support so the scribble strips can reflect presets on a Kemper, Axe FX, or other?
That would be insane, and Helix's MIDI support is really powerful, but not quite that cool yet.

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Wow, a L6 I-Phone that sounds like an HD500.

[Blocked Image: http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg494/Tokai_Guitars/VerticalRectangle240x400Black_zpsgj9j8wgg.gif]

So if this toy could profile like a Kemper i would change immediately...

I really can't believe that anyone of us Kemper users is interested in the Helix. I mean...what do you expect soundwise if it already sounds meh from a pofessional made video?

I can still remember how the L6 Amplifi was advertised like a guitar revolution. And in the end it was a toy...

Yep. Don´t judge a book by it´s cover!

Quote from Kempermaniac

I really can't believe that anyone of us Kemper users is interested in the Helix. I mean...what do you expect soundwise if it already sounds meh from a pofessional made video?

I can still remember how the L6 Amplifi was advertised like a guitar revolution. And in the end it was a toy...

I would only consider it for use IN CONJUNCTION with the Kemper. As I feel the only thing the Kemper lacks is certain FX, and I really wish the Kemper Remote had more screens! But, on the other hand I don't think I'd be happy with the amount of cables and it wouldn't integrate the same obviously...

The AmpliFI marketing campaign was a massive joke!

Well I for one don't mind publicly displaying interest in this one. It in no way, shape or form represents a dislike for Kemper nor does it mean that I'll be jumping ship (which I certainly won't).

It's simple.... I'm a gearhead at heart (sadly the wallet is not even in the same universe ) so when a piece of gear with a dozen lcds and 3rd party IRs and four fx loops shows up at the horizon, I can't help but to raise my ears a bit. Same goes for the FX8/AX8. I'll never get one (mostly because I can't afford any of it after buying a Kemper at what's really a stupendous amount of money for me) but I enjoy reading up about it.

Quote from nEVH5150

I would only consider it for use IN CONJUNCTION with the Kemper. As I feel the only thing the Kemper lacks is certain FX, and I really wish the Kemper Remote had more screens! But, on the other hand I don't think I'd be happy with the amount of cables and it wouldn't integrate the same obviously...

The AmpliFI marketing campaign was a massive joke!

That's the thing with the kemper (and axe fx), is that they take pedals very well. Don't have an effect you're looking for? Go buy the pedal and put it in the fx loop that is conveniently on the remote.

Quote from Corey1213

That's the thing with the kemper (and axe fx), is that they take pedals very well. Don't have an effect you're looking for? Go buy the pedal and put it in the fx loop that is conveniently on the remote.

The thing is, I'm trying not to buy more now! and to downsize.... Hope the FX get added to / updated sometime soon!

You say there is an fx loop "conveniently on the remote" - did you mean, you can select the FX loop from the remote?

Quote from nEVH5150

The thing is, I'm trying not to buy more now! and to downsize.... Hope the FX get added to / updated sometime soon!

You say there is an fx loop "conveniently on the remote" - did you mean, you can select the FX loop from the remote?

Whoops, was thinking of pedal expansion inputs. I get what you're saying. In my opinion, if you are wanting to take your favorite rigs with you anywhere you go and really don't rely on having a massive amount of effects then the kemper is for you. If you want the best of both worlds I'd go with the Axe FX. By the time you buy the line 6 and the Kemper you're talking about almost or over $5,000 compared to the $3,500 for an Axe Fx.

I like effects, but I'm more of a head and cab kinda guy with a little delay and reverb here and there. So for me the Kemper is perfect, all these amps I've always wanted to own or play profiled into a single unit. Plug straight into my console and record studio quality tracks without having to perfectly mic up a cabinet.

Quote

I really can't believe that anyone of us Kemper users is interested in the Helix. I mean...what do you expect soundwise if it already sounds meh from a pofessional made video?

Of course some of us are interested! Whether we'll actually run out and buy one depends on the sound, obviously, but assuming it will be terrible is all down to speculation at this point. The videos demonstrate very few sounds - sounds I'll personally never dial in - and I have to assume there's a wider variety on tap. Perhaps it won't sound as good as your personal favorite profiles - to you - but some of it might sound very, very good, particularly after you've loaded your personal favorite IR's.

Your disbelief that anyone might jump ship from Kemper back to Line6 also implies that your practical needs happen to align with the KPA's design. That's true for most players, probably, and that's why Kemper has designed the KPA as such and focused on the enhancements they have. But, with zero speculation and plenty of hands-on experience, I already know that the Kemper seriously challenges me on a practical level. Will 4 independent effects loops be more versatile than one? Yep. Indeterminate effects counts and routing vs. love-it-or-leave-it A B C D - Amp - 1 2 DLY REV? You bet. Integrated footcontroller, MIDI-learn, multi-assigns, etc. vs. a few stray CC's and NRPN's? HELL YES! And the list of features that genuinely matter to me goes on and on.

I guess, from my perspective, the KPA does one thing (amp and cab simulation) extraordinarily well, but it's proven fairly mediocre in nearly every other way. If Kemper were to release a stomp box that just played the amp/cab profiles back - no effects at all, with a programmable effects loop between the amp and cab blocks - I'd buy one for a whole lot more than cost of parts, etc. It would be the ideal amp sim to integrate with my own favorite effects, route per my own personal preferences, etc. But the KPA as a whole often proves too inflexible for me. (And I get that I'm in the minority here - a niche hobbyist in an already niche market.) I think a stomp box like I'm describing would be a good money maker for Kemper, actually; the only problem is it might undercut sales of full-blown KPA's.

tldr; a) The Helix might sound good; we don't know yet. b) There's more to consider than how it sounds.

I won't buy it if it sounds like ass, but if sounds decent and solves a million problems, I'm in. Cautiously optimistic.

I will give it a try. I´m with Line 6 since their early days. Pod, Pod 2, XT, XTL, X3L and an Axe-FX Ultra. All sold. My first choice for studio and touring is my KPA + a Liquid Foot but still there is a Pod HD500X for backup. Maybe the Helix is too good to be the backup, but I have to test it.

Quote from Corey1213

Whoops, was thinking of pedal expansion inputs. I get what you're saying. In my opinion, if you are wanting to take your favorite rigs with you anywhere you go and really don't rely on having a massive amount of effects then the kemper is for you. If you want the best of both worlds I'd go with the Axe FX. By the time you buy the line 6 and the Kemper you're talking about almost or over $5,000 compared to the $3,500 for an Axe Fx.

I like effects, but I'm more of a head and cab kinda guy with a little delay and reverb here and there. So for me the Kemper is perfect, all these amps I've always wanted to own or play profiled into a single unit. Plug straight into my console and record studio quality tracks without having to perfectly mic up a cabinet.

I'm a hi gain, tone enthusiast; so the Kemper was always for me... Wouldn't spend out that much for an AxeFX