Line 6 Helix - next gen guitarist's wet dream..?

  • its a very interesting quality Unit imo and this time it seems that they thought about everything, but like always no Highgain clips coming from previews.
    The previewvideos of the PD HD sounded in clean and crunch stuff also very good (for a Pod) I once had a POD HD300..sended it back within 2 weeks because even the old Pod XT sounded better to me :D
    But i must say they did improve dynamic drastically with the HD series, there was much more Amp feeling.
    Im looking forward to try the Helix..but im sure it will not replace my Kemper haha..but would be great as Footswitch with extra effects for me maybe.
    I still did not order my Remote....so.... :D


  • guenterhaas, I agree with just about everything you have to say about the Kemper, I just don't get how you can make this observation about the Helix so soon. Have you had a chance to play one yet? Or are you just making assumptions based on Line6's history and modeling in general (and perhaps the one amp tone we've heard in demo videos)?


    First I have a lot of experience with PODs and I used them from the beginning up to the HD 500. Until now I've never heard a modelling amp offering the amp-tones I'm looking for (except the KPA). I mainly love pure and authentic clean and crunch tones from old Fender-, Vox- and Marshall-amps, not weak tones overloaded with effects or with the gain set on 20. I watched all the posted videos here and again there's this artificial character (especially in the treble- and high mid-section), which is typical for Line 6 and other modelling-amps. A real tube-amp would "breathe" and would have "shimmering" trebles and the only digital device offering exactly that is the KPA.


    Besides the sound I don't trust the reliabilty of Line 6-products, this is the result of my personal experience using PODs on tour. On one tour 3 (!) POD XT Live did bite the dust, I always had to have at least one or two spares. There were also dropping knobs ect., for me just unreliable gear for big tours. I played the Kemper on 3 big tours now and I didn't have one single problem.


    Of course I will test the Helix soon, but because of my experiences I never would pay 1.500 EUR (1.700 $) for it.


    ingo: I'm using the Strymons and other pedals like the Mad Professor Auto Wah, Fulltone OCD, Okko Diablo, Dieter Lender Tremolo or 19" gear like my DBX 160x-compressor or the fantastic DTC Mindprint just for studio-work, live it's just the KPA + remote + Vovox cables, nothing else.


    I don't want to bash Yamaha (it's been a joke...) and they produce f.e. great pianos and other instruments, but I never liked their guitars and amps.

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    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de

  • Sorry if I ruffled any feathers, Monkey_Man. I generally champion smaller, cutting edge companies, too. But I'm kind of in a minority here as one of few who has often been frustrated with the Kemper experience, and perhaps that colors my point of view a bit.


    Ha. You're a balanced dude, man. That 3 weeks' delay I mentioned was on top of the month I waited for the unit to reach Australia, so I totally understand where you're coming from, as I suspect you do I. I'm just cutting them some slack 'cause the product's so great and the company's not huge... but I think you've figured that this was what I was getting at anyway. Ah, if only the world was this agreeable. Thank you for showing the sensitivity you did, mate. No feathers ruffled here (impossible, really).


    I don't agree about this statement at all. Yamaha has been building quality instruments since 1887.It's a music company through and through.


    Robust, utilitarian as well as fairly cutting-edge mixers too... and instrument modellers such as the VL series modules, and the ground-breaking EX5, the analog-modelling CS6(?) with its aggressive, cutting hard sync, the "silent play" instruments ranging from violin to guitar (nylon) to trumpet, the best bang-for-the-buck and quietest-playing eDrums out there, high-quality saxophones and other brass instruments, pianos, the Clavinova which is legendary... one could go on forever. Few companies have given us so much, IMHO.


  • Robust, utilitarian as well as fairly cutting-edge mixers too... and instrument modellers such as the VL series modules, and the ground-breaking EX5, the analog-modelling CS6(?) with its aggressive, cutting hard sync, the "silent play" instruments ranging from violin to guitar (nylon) to trumpet, the best bang-for-the-buck and quietest-playing eDrums out there, high-quality saxophones and other brass instruments, pianos, the Clavinova which is legendary... one could go on forever. Few companies have given us so much, IMHO.


    It's always helpful to read the recent posts..., here's mine:


    "I don't want to bash Yamaha (it's been a joke...) and they produce f.e. great pianos and other instruments, but I never liked their guitars and amps."

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    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de

  • I havent seen them and am curious as to what he said. Do you have a link?


    I don't have a link but the comment I read from Cliff seemed pretty balanced to me - he though that the look and color LCD were better than what Fractal were doing for their AX8 (or whatever it is called) but felt in his opinion (and made this clear that it was his biased opinion) that FAS decision to invest in a monochrome screen and put the money into better processors resulted in creating better sounds for end users. Like Kemper, FAS also has a pretty big commitment to providing regular updates and improvements, something it seems that Line 6 has not done in the past with other products (though I have no personal experience with any of their products specifically, Kemper and FAS seem to be the exception rather than the norm - for instance, my Roland GR55 hasn't seen an update in years and probably never will have another one.)

    Edited once, last by SwAn1 ().

  • Now Logic is an Apple product, what a joke...by the way, Logic would be much better if Emagic would still be a German, independent company (like CK). Meanwhile it looks like the big brother of Garage Band.... :sleeping:


    While I appreciate the home town support for a company, I have to say that for me Logic is an amazing piece of software and if you are a musician who has a Mac already then the price is amazingly cheap. While there are some minor superficial similarities in the look to Garage Band, the functionality and depth of the Logic for me is amazing. Apple's track record with pro software is a concern - Shake, Color, Aperture and depending on how you look at it, FCP X (we switched our company over to PremierePro but others love FCP) but from the bits and pieces I've read it sounds like the Logic team is largely intact. And yes, they could speed up their development cycle but what critical features are missing in Logic that other comparable software has (I have dabbled with Live some but always gone back to Logic and have not invested in any of the other software out there so this is a serious question and not just trying to disagree with you and I am always open to exploring new options if and when possible.)


  • While I appreciate the home town support for a company, I have to say that for me Logic is an amazing piece of software and if you are a musician who has a Mac already then the price is amazingly cheap. While there are some minor superficial similarities in the look to Garage Band, the functionality and depth of the Logic for me is amazing. Apple's track record with pro software is a concern - Shake, Color, Aperture and depending on how you look at it, FCP X (we switched our company over to PremierePro but others love FCP) but from the bits and pieces I've read it sounds like the Logic team is largely intact. And yes, they could speed up their development cycle but what critical features are missing in Logic that other comparable software has (I have dabbled with Live some but always gone back to Logic and have not invested in any of the other software out there so this is a serious question and not just trying to disagree with you and I am always open to exploring new options if and when possible.)


    Agreed!
    I don't care about similarities to GarageBand as long as the functionality is there in Logic X.
    My favourite DAW for years.

  • Please no Logic vs. something else discussion.... I'm using both, I definitevely prefer Cubase Pro 8 and I don't like Logic X very much, for me the GUI of Logic X looks just horrible. For somebody else it might be the opposite, I once started with Emagic Notator on an Atari ST, later on I switched to Cubase, but I always kept Logic, too, just to be compatible to some producers I work for.


    It's all a matter of taste, workflow, subjective experiences ect., there is a lot of great software on the market (Cubase, Nuendo, Logic, Protools, Ableton Live, Reaper, Reason ect.), they all have their pros and cons, in the end most musicians stay with the software they started and they actually don't know the other ones. Of course Logic is now much cheaper than the rest, that might be an argument for some musicians, you can buy Logic X for 200 EUR, whereas Cubase Pro, Protools ect. will cost 500 EUR or more.


    By the way: if my information is right Logix X's audio engine cannot handle 32-bit floating point audiofiles and the maximum still is 24-bit fixpoint (it's been like this up to Logic 9). 32-bit floating point is a standard for Cubase, Ableton Live and all the others sequencers for many years. If you produce and mix inside your computer, you will hear a noticeable difference between 24-bit fixpoint and 32-bit floating point. There are also more advantages using 32-bit floating point, take a look at this video:


    - Video by Friedemann Tischmeyer

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    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de

  • DP seems to be the forgotten DAW in most of these discussions; even SOS has a history of dropping the "Performer Notes" section for extended periods, so, just for balance I'll have to say it:


    Digital Performer! Been around since 1984, and is still compatible with projects created back then. It's technically at version 14 (15 soon) 'cause the name changed and it reverted to v1.0 after Performer 6 when audio was added.


    I agree with Guenter - please let's not get into a this vs that distraction here; if anyone's keen a thread for "DAW Wars" could easily be created.


    It's always helpful to read the recent posts..., here's mine:


    "I don't want to bash Yamaha (it's been a joke...) and they produce f.e. great pianos and other instruments, but I never liked their guitars and amps."


    Thank you for pointing this out, Guenter; I have to agree with you as I've always found their guitars a little cold-sounding and character-less. Their basses are arguably a whole lot better.


    The thing is, I was responding to your statement that, "Yamaha should continue to produce motorcycles, that's where they are really good"; in so doing I pointed out, as if it weren't obvious, that there've always been products across its range that I'd consider "really good". In this context it seemed you were being a little hard on good ol' Yammy.


    It's all good, mate. Incredibly "versatile" company, and one I'd suspect is matched by few if any in this regard. The guitars 'though, as you suggested? Meh.

  • Please no Logic vs. something else discussion....


    What? So you can say whatever you want about something and when people ask you about it suddenly you want to dictate what can and can't be discussed? Regardless, with regards to 32bit / floating point audio, Logic X Pro does seem to support it http://www.askaudiomag.com/art…-to-float-or-not-to-float


    "Unlike an analog mixer, digital mixers and many DAWs like Logic Pro X have volume headroom/ceilings internally that are virtually impossible to clip. They work in what is called 32-bit Floating Point."


    [Edit - doing some additional research it seems that logic does not record at 32-bit just 24 and if you can hear a difference then that is a valid reason not to use it. No need to be dickish ]

    Edited 5 times, last by SwAn1 ().

  • Just got my first look and introduction to the Helix on this thread in the Kemper forum. Nice ad here. :)
    Right after I was finished watching the videos I turned to my right and looked at my KPA and thought, damn I really like the sound of it, but holy shit.....it does look and feel so dated! Almost primal.
    I have never owned anything Line 6 so I have no experience but I will be watching the Helix. If in fact it does have the sound......well. I will hurry and sell the KPA before everybody figures it out and the KPA price tanks.


    Of course the sound is 99 percent to me but if anything comes anywhere near close enough, I will have no problem moving on to something that is much more with the times as far as control, options, compatibility, appearance etc.


    As for now I have not heard it yet so....we will see.


  • What? So you can say whatever you want about something and when people ask you about it suddenly you want to dictate what can and can't be discussed? Regardless, with regards to 32bit / floating point audio, Logic X Pro does seem to support it http://www.askaudiomag.com/art…-to-float-or-not-to-float


    "Unlike an analog mixer, digital mixers and many DAWs like Logic Pro X have volume headroom/ceilings internally that are virtually impossible to clip. They work in what is called 32-bit Floating Point."


    [Edit - doing some additional research it seems that logic does not record at 32-bit just 24 and if you can hear a difference then that is a valid reason not to use it. No need to be dickish ]

    Just to clear this up : Logic records at 24-bit fixed point. Internally, the audio is processed at 32-bit floating point. Bounced audio is up to 24-bit fixed point. There are very good scientific reasons for this (Google is your friend if you want to learn why. Also why 32-bit floating point masters are not only a waste of disk space, but why they can actually be worse than 24- or even 16-bit).


    ps No-one can hear the difference between 24-bit and 32-bit floating point in reality, not even in an anachoic chamber. It's simply not physically possible.

  • The question in my mind is- Are Line 6 chasing the leaders in this digital field with a quality product at a well pitched price point, or have they gift wrapped another turkey in a sexy little black number ready for the mighty Line 6 marketing machine to steam through the masses at a price they think they can get away with?
    Cynical i know but, if it were the former, wouldn't Yamaha want their name on the product?

  • Let's get BTT, I know Logic-, Cubase- and Protools-users, they are all happy with their software and they produce - the most important thing - really good music with it.


    To make it clear: Yamaha is a great company producing a lot of excellent music-gear, I just don't like their guitars. Maybe some people here don't know my humor and take some of my posts too serious.... Even I'm born and raised up in Germany (and I'm still living there), my humor is very British. ;)


    Is there any information when Helix will be available in Europe? Thomann's (Europe's biggest music-store located in Germany) information at the moment: "aricle not yet avalable".

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    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de

    Edited 3 times, last by guenterhaas ().

  • Let's get BTT, I know Logic-, Cubase- and Protools-users, they are all happy with their software and they produce - the most important thing - really good music with it.


    To make it clear: Yamaha is a great company producing a lot of excellent music-gear, I just don't like their guitars. Maybe some people here don't know my humor and take some of my posts too serious.... Even I'm born and raised up in Germany (and I'm still living there), my humor is very British. ;)


    Is there any information when Helix will be available in Europe? Thomann's (Europe's biggest music-store located in Germany) information at the moment: "aricle not yet avalable".

    I like SONAR (for me is most intuitive):)

  • Quote

    Besides the sound I don't trust the reliabilty of Line 6-products, this is the result of my personal experience using PODs on tour. On one tour 3 (!) POD XT Live did bite the dust, I always had to have at least one or two spares. There were also dropping knobs ect., for me just unreliable gear for big tours. I played the Kemper on 3 big tours now and I didn't have one single problem.


    Every company will have products that break down. Line 6 has a lot of product out there so the failure rate could perhaps be more prominent due to the number of users. I've had a ton of Line 6 gear right from the AXsys which was their first. I've had only 1 issue with a Vetta combo that went dead on me. Other than that, nothing else. While you have had great luck on your tours with Kemper, I have not on mine. I was an early adopter 3 years ago. Mine developed the LED rings of death and one by one they started going out. I had an issue with my alternative input that was never resolved. I had the LEDs repaired and sold the unit. I then picked up a powered rack and within the month of my summer tour it shut down on my 3 times. I ended up borrowing and amp and board for the rest of the gigs and that performed flawlessly. I returned the powered rack. I picked up a regular rack which was fine but only had it a short time as I moved to a solution that works better for me.


    As for the other discussion on DAWs....it's all with what you are comfortable with. I've been a Pro Tools user since 99. I stopped using their nonsense due to the subscription based models and quite frankly, a pretty light set of plugins . I have been using Logic Pro X for the last while. I've settled on PreSonus though. The Studio One 3 is absolutely outstanding for both workflow and ease of use. It sounds fabulous as well.

    Edited once, last by PBGas ().