Recreate tube amp with powered KPA

  • Hey guys, I don't know if anyone here has ever done this.
    I used to own a non-powered KPA, which I used through the tube poweramp of my Engl Ironball (20W, EL84). I loved it so much, that I decided to take the plunge and get the powered version. As it got here, instadisappointment: while preamp profiling was impeccable, I found the KPA's poweramp to be cold and sterile. I tried tweaking for a good while, to no real improvement. After a while, I kind of gave up and went on on using it with the tube pa.
    Today I tried again, and spent a good 2 hours trying to modify a copy of my fave preset (EVH 5150 III by Stymphalian) so that through the KPA's own poweramp would sound as close as possible to the original through the tube pa. I got it definitely close, but I still don't think I nailed it completely.
    So my question would be: did you ever try to "clone" the signature sound of a particular tube amp? What process did you follow?

  • If you're profiling a tube amp the sonic fingerprint of the tubes is already part of the profile. So what you've done is (simply said) running a profile of a tube amp through a tube amp. There's nothing wrong with this approach but I think you need to get used to the new sound through the powered version.

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)

  • right,
    the Profiler's poweramp is by design completely neutral, all information about the amp is already in a profile (unless it's a fx send/preamp only profile).


    Like Kempermaniac already said, you were effectively listening to two coloring power sections (the one from the profile and the one of your tube amp) in series.


    what did you mean by "did you ever try to "clone" the signature sound of a particular tube amp?"
    that's what we have been about all along and the process has been proven over and over again to be spot on ;)

  • Uhm, what I have been doing was running the profile with cab sims off into the tube amp and there to the cabinet.
    So yeah, what you say is correct, it's been as if there were two power amps there. However, I am not sure I don't just like that more :D

  • What mic was used in the process of getting that Engl Ironball tone you loved so much? I'm guessing none. Are you comparing the sound of a straight guitar cab to one that is mic'd? Two completely different animals if so. Mic's do their own thing to guitar tones.

  • What mic was used in the process of getting that Engl Ironball tone you loved so much? I'm guessing none. Are you comparing the sound of a straight guitar cab to one that is mic'd? Two completely different animals if so. Mic's do their own thing to guitar tones.


    I am not sure I get your remark.
    I use to run


    guitar -> Kemper (cabs off, EVH 5150 III profile, poweramp off) -> Engl Ironball poweramp -> cabinet


    and now I am trying to go


    guitar -> Kemper (cabs off, EVH 5150 III profile, poweramp on) -> cabinet


    in such a way that the new tone is as close as possible to the old one. This of course mean modifying the profile to better incorporate the sonic signature of the Ironball's poweramp.
    But since the cab section is off, I don't see where the mics should play a role :)


    Some people do, and that's totally fine :)


    I might be one of them :P I just spent a few hours profiling my Engl, and as close as it got - and it pretty darn close, jesus! - it always feels like some of the body and roundness of the tube poweramp is not there yet. Argh :D


    EDIT: of course I can't exclude the "missing sth" isn't the DI box's fault...

    Edited once, last by Laimon ().


  • Are you profiling with the cab connected to the DI box as well?

  • Yes, I did connect the cab as well, as recommended in the manual :)


    [quote='XpennoKPA','http://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/index.php/Thread/22856-Recreate-tube-amp-with-powered-KPA/?postID=236536#post236536']Try tweaking the monitor out eq, -2 mids and +1 to +2 on presence. Bear in mind that you are effectively emulating the tube section twice though.


    I did indeed sth similar, but on the amp's tonestack, rather than on the monitor out eq. Do you think they behave differently?


  • I did indeed sth similar, but on the amp's tonestack, rather than on the monitor out eq. Do you think they behave differently?


    They are different, of course. The eq response of the tube power amp should be captured in the profile so you are doubling this effect. I generally find that if I do this that the guitar gets lost in a band mix as the mids are too scooped. I generally go -2 on bass which tightens things up and maybe a small boost on treble and presence but usually flat. Sounds killer.

  • They are different, of course. The eq response of the tube power amp should be captured in the profile so you are doubling this effect. I generally find that if I do this that the guitar gets lost in a band mix as the mids are too scooped. I generally go -2 on bass which tightens things up and maybe a small boost on treble and presence but usually flat. Sounds killer.


    Yes, I agree that in a band or mix context you'd want to cut the lows and strategically boost the mids to cut through, but here I am really just trying to see how close to the real tube poweramp sound and feel I can get ;)

  • Yes, I agree that in a band or mix context you'd want to cut the lows and strategically boost the mids to cut through, but here I am really just trying to see how close to the real tube poweramp sound and feel I can get ;)


    this has been done successfully so many times that I'm afraid you're a little late to the party ;)


    but, if you want to compare please do it like this:
    a) your amp -> your cabinet
    b) direct amp profile of your amp with the exact same settings as above -> your cabinet


    hth :)

  • I am not sure I solved the issue entirely, but I seem to have found the main culprit of what I perceived as a missing part of the body: sub-lows. I don't know exactly what frequency range is the "Low" knob on the tone stack supposed to work on, all I know is that cranking that up things get easily get muddy. I did instead place a parametric eq right after the amp, and cranked up a few dbs the area around 60 dB. That seems to bring back the punch in rhythms and give more mass to the leads. I love my KPA <3