What do you guys think of this from Cliff of Axe Fx?

  • Can totally understand that. I believe their footswitch though is made in China though. And while software and possibly some assembly is in the USA, I would wager a LOT of the internals aren't. We like what we like, but it's such a global economy nowadays that you're going to be hard pressed to find anything 'Made in USA' entirely.


    Helix is made in the USA and that's why we in the united states were waiting for the shipment from China 8o


    I buy what works, According to some I guess I made a mistake by buying the Kemper for $1600 from Musicians friend with a 20% discount and the amp models and effects, to boot, are in a much higher league than the AXE FX II at $2500 based on first hand trying and playing both. never mind the fact that with the Kemper I'm able to model my own amps and other modelers perfectly inside one box while the AXE FX II is an insult to my intelligence claiming tone match (decades old EQ matching) is the same as profiling.and still I haven't seen one video by line 6 or Fractal at their website to support their claim of accurate modeling by showing the actual amps,so because they can write code and they're my country men, I should take their word at face value, that their modeling is accurate and based on real world amps and not on schematics. ?(


    I'm a mildly skeptic man and if you don't show me the amps, your modeling is mostly paper schematic :D . I'll give no more than $500 for schematic based modeling without demonstration of the claimed imaginary amps as far as I'm concerned.until I see at least a picture of some employee posing with said amps that they modeled as a beginning! It's the 21 century with God knows how many photos and videos hosting website, yet non of these amps make an appearance. The only thing I have so far is maybe a lone individual sworn testimony in a message board that he heard from someone who works for said company or companies that they try meticulously to accurately model real worlds amp! ;)

  • Dean, what do you think of Plinis tone?


    meambobbo, he sounds like an excellent musician and accomplished player but my honest opinion about the tone, based on what I heard if we're talking about the same thing, is that it's very thin and lacks more definition and realism, I'm guessing he used the AXE FX, but regardless, he could have used real amps and the guitars still sound thin to me. I hope I'm not being mean or anything because as much as I love Gilmour, sometime even his tone is thin in the most recent floyd work and I'm a floyd fan.


    The playing and composing is nice but since you're putting me on the spot, if these tracks can be re-amped with real amps or Kemper, I have no doubt it would be huge or significant improvement.
    this is what I heard

    External Content www.youtube.com
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

  • I don't know why anyone cares what other musicians use or don't use. Our choice of gear is not a tool for world domination.


    Maybe because they want to be able to get similar tones, If you like Hendrix, Gilmour, Clapton, you might be better off with Strat, and if you like Zeplin you get a less Paul etc. If you like them all, you get a collection of guitars and amps regardless if you play cover or original,


    it's similar to the artist/painter who uses certain brushes or various colors, then mixes certain colors in certain proportion to get the desired effect...People need to know the tools of their trade.or hobby to see what would work for them. In the midst of all of this they have to muddle through false advertising and misinformation and it's nice to be able to share information in message boards, not about world domination!

  • I've heard a number of Axe FX clips where I could say there is something off or that I didn't like about the tone. But I don't think I could find that in Plini's tone. That's why I pointed out the example. It's easy to find bad examples. I could take dozens of the crap profiles from the Rig Exchange and make clips and people would think the Kemper is terrible.


    I just don't hear anything artificial about Plini's tone. Yes, it is a very 80's mid-pushed kind of sound. But Feodor Dosumov has the same kind of thing going with the Kemper. And Satch had it with real Marshalls on many of his albums. The nuances are there, in the playing, but also in the distortion tone.


    My point is that I think you are being WAY too critical, Dean. I am 100% with you about the impedance between amp and cab, how EQ matching (tonematch) is old technology and not even comparable to KPA profiling, how other brands fail to produce A/B comparisons of their models to real amps/cabs, how every firmware revisions is 120% realer, and how Cliff's numbers games are clear FUD. But I will never accept your opinion that the Axe FX is such a terrible unit at producing quality, amp-like tones. I would bet in many cases, none of us could consistently guess correctly which was which in a blind test.


    Now, I'm sure the Axe would take a bit more tweaking to get there, and it cannot simply copy a real rig like the KPA can, and the Axe is more expensive, etc. etc. Yes! I prefer the Kemper! I just don't see that the level of Axe bashing you present is justified, and I think the extremity of your language does a disservice to those seeking a valid comparison of the two units. It reeks of confirmation bias (yes, I know you tried both out before making a decision).


    Let's put it this way - is there an Axe FX clip that you would admit sounds pretty good? IE - what is your favorite clip or artist that uses one?

  • Buy what you want, play what you want. If you decide its wrong then research it and if its still wrong to you then don't believe it and don't buy it. Bashing others that won't agree with you is just a waste of time as the internet is full of that. And Cliff can argue his side on the Axe FX better than anyone (he's a real smart guy) because its his baby, and he knows it inside and out, and after all you really need to believe in what you are doing because whats the point otherwise. Many agree to just disagree and move on if they don't like something. OTOH Bull Doggin loses its worth after a while, for ANY point trying to be made. Many professionals (Many are shown using both the KPA and the Axe FX on the website) use the Axe FX, and others the KPA, and some both. Both have a place in our passion. Both are wonderful, and get better very often with active devs giving us wonderful and FREE updates!. Our "choice" of gear is what its all about here, not what we disagree on. Variety makes for better options and more competition which is always a good thing for US...

    If you use FRFR the benefit of a merged profile is that the cabinet is totally separated in the profile.


    For my edification only... ;) Kemper/Axe-FX III/ Quad Cortex user

  • meambobbo


    And I also bet that the same dry track played using POD HD,Eleven, AXE FX , Kemper or real Amp might not be distinguishable by most in a proper mix, but the feel and responsiveness to finger is what inspires a better performance that's why some are better than others and that's the state of modeling at this stage of its evolution IMHO even though outside of a mix, there are sonic qualities that might be crucial if multiple tracks of guitar are mixed, so the little imperfections are multiplied and can be as detrimental to a mix.. I don't care what people use or buy, but I try to correct misinformation if I have the time, that's it, hopefully it would help somebody and it's the right thing after all.


    So if you're in doubt of what I'm saying, go to the rig exchange and try many of the AXE FX II profiles and try some of the Eleven Rack or Pod Hd and compare how they feel. I honestly don't think the AXE is above any of them. Just because many are willing to pay the price due to too much hype doesn't make it so. GO see the many comparison videos of POD HD and AXE II and you'll know what I'm talking about.


    Let me remind you bobbo if I may call you that, you are a savvy technical guy and just because you happen to know very well the difference between profiling and EQ tone match, many of unsuspecting customers post questions in the gear page, and the responses they get from Fractal even Cliff himself, intentionally misrepresent tone match to be capable of accomplishing what profiling does aside from making stuff up about small file size etc etc.


    I do apologize for the over the top language in my previous post, but you have to realize that to me, misinformation in Sales is very similar to what I see here in NYC where I work everyday and watch street hustlers try to pass fake Rolex watches to suspecting and unsuspecting consumers (with hustler being a mildly chosen word that doesn't fully describe their moral standing but you're welcome to choose other words that don't offend you that better describe their character). The only difference is most people know that these are fake Rolexes and there no need to warn them.


    The question is, why aren't so many people who actually know that AXE FX tone match is just as fake as the Rolex that you would find on 42 street for 20- to 30 dollars except this one is $2500, don't even want to bother cry foul or point out how ridiculously unethical it is to openly propagate this misinformation? Well guess what, in the united states the federal trade commission regulates and enforces the truth in advertising set of laws but Fractal is not posting this in advertisement because they're clearly very clever.


    Fractal markets these false claims in message boards such as the gearpage and their own website which is very clever target marketing as they have clearly identified their target market. I'm not going to answer the question of why people don't bother and why they are sometimes shocked when someone dares to clearly state the obvious except to say that a human being is an enigma, they teach their children not to lie but don't mind when smart adults use deception to make money and sell goods (and we're not talking white lies here). Some might think I'm going of the deep end, but if you breathe twice and think about it you will realize that the ninth commandment was there for a very good reason even though it means nothing to many marketers/inventors.

    Edited 4 times, last by Dean_R ().

  • Dean, If I may ask why do you care? You obviously don't own an Axe FX, right? So why the rant? As Hillary says, at this point what does it matter? You don't like it, fine. You don't like Cliff, and thats fine too with me. You want me to not like it, not fine. Like you Ill make my own mind up. But I need to ask, why the rant?

    If you use FRFR the benefit of a merged profile is that the cabinet is totally separated in the profile.


    For my edification only... ;) Kemper/Axe-FX III/ Quad Cortex user

  • Dean, If I may ask why do you care? You obviously don't own an Axe FX, right? So why the rant? As Hillary says, at this point what does it matter? You don't like it, fine. You don't like Cliff, and thats fine too with me. You want me to not like it, not fine. Like you Ill make my own mind up. But I need to ask, why the rant?


    I'm posting my humble opinion only. I'm not telling you not to like it, actually I'm not telling anyone not to like it. You ask why I care, I'm just posting my response to the title of the thread where it pointed to the AXE FX forum where Cliff discussed the Kemper.


    I'm sure you're wondering why I have more to say, and to answer your question why the rant, I just have a very negative image of Fractal based on what I see in the gearpage and on the AXE Forum and finally I don't like it when smart people like Cliff play real dirty and unprofessionally. You don't see Chris Kemper posting about the AXE FX real.actual and factual shortcomings but you will see Cliff from day one of the Kemper release busying himself trying to find or create rumors and false information about the KPA, Cliff is talking about the Kemper file size being small,


    If it's someone with less programming skills.it won't be as bad, but this is beyond petty when Cliff tries to inject this idea in what he might perceive as feeble minds who almost worship him, so it grows into an idea that Kemper file size is too small for it to have hi resolution impulse responses when he knows very well that Kemper doesn't even use impulse responses the same way AXE or Helix use it. Kemper always approximated Impulse response after the whole amp was profiled and clearly stated that it was an approximation, for flexibility purposes, profiling the whole amp and speaker together always was stated to be the most authentic so there was never an incentive to even talk about IRs. Kemper users exchange Profiles, not IR, (maybe now they might also have IRs after the direct profiling update)

    Edited 3 times, last by Dean_R ().

  • "The equalizer is another obvious tool to go beyond (the physical range of the profiled amplifier). We are building up a library for passive tone stacks so every amp can be equipped with the corresponding equalizer, even after the profile has been captured. The tone can be shaped then as on the original. But you can even choose another passive tone stack for your profile, or even a studio equalizer, that goes far beyond the boundaries again"
    Was this idea abandoned or is still in the works?


    I have never heard of it again, perhaps it's not abandoned but on the backburner.



    Other than that, CK is an artist, others are engineers. One can hear the difference clearly.


    Truth.

  • http://www.kemper-amps.com/for…?postID=259706#post259706

    ']

    I just don't hear anything artificial about Plini's tone. Yes, it is a very 80's mid-pushed kind of sound. But Feodor Dosumov has the same kind of thing going with the Kemper. And Satch had it with real Marshalls on many of his albums. The nuances are there, in the playing, but also in the distortion tone.



    Thanks for mentioning Feodor Dosumov. Never heard of him.. a quick google later and I discovered that he's using an Echolution 2 with his Kemper, which is my plan, and it's great to hear how amazing it sounds!


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsG8WCfPFAM

  • "The equalizer is another obvious tool to go beyond (the physical range of the profiled amplifier). We are building up a library for passive tone stacks so every amp can be equipped with the corresponding equalizer, even after the profile has been captured. The tone can be shaped then as on the original. But you can even choose another passive tone stack for your profile, or even a studio equalizer, that goes far beyond the boundaries again"
    Was this idea abandoned or is still in the works?


    I'd like to know this too. Seems such a great idea to me... :)

  • Good riddance...


    :D
    Funny thing I always thought the guys avi looked like a serial killer Ted Bundy type :O



    Helix is made in the USA and that's why we in the united states were waiting for the shipment from China 8o


    I buy what works, According to some I guess I made a mistake by buying the Kemper for $1600 from Musicians friend with a 20% discount and the amp models and effects, to boot, are in a much higher league than the AXE FX II at $2500 based on first hand trying and playing both. never mind the fact that with the Kemper I'm able to model my own amps and other modelers perfectly inside one box while the AXE FX II is an insult to my intelligence claiming tone match (decades old EQ matching) is the same as profiling.and still I haven't seen one video by line 6 or Fractal at their website to support their claim of accurate modeling by showing the actual amps,so because they can write code and they're my country men, I should take their word at face value, that their modeling is accurate and based on real world amps and not on schematics. ?(


    One could argue if this were the case why is there thousands of profiles on the rig exchange but near next to nothing on the tone match forum?
    Not to mention when you 'tone match' you have to find an amp model close to the original (which in reality just gives it an EQ curve to sound similar to the real source.....doesn't match distortion characteristics etc)


    If anyone remembers 'MIMIC' which was a sale point of being like a Kemper except turning the EQ/Gain matches the real thing only needs to look through the release notes of how many times amps had to be "reMIMICed' due to someone (never from the beta team of course) pointing out how far off they were IRL.


    And of course the FW updates will keep destroying your patches until the end of time ....no thanks



    I actually had some interest in the Helix (if they did a floor based kemper with an expression pedal I'd be sold) and I'm not surprised about the AX-8 price being lower....that never would have been the case if the Helix didn't come along
    I don't think I'd ever touch another Fractal product again after the way they go about their business.

  • "Funny thing I always thought the guys avi looked like a serial killer Ted Bundy type"


    Oooooooo... strong words coming from an ass hat who doesnt have the balls to post an image of himself. Babble on douche bag. : P : )

  • "Funny thing I always thought the guys avi looked like a serial killer Ted Bundy type"


    Oooooooo... strong words coming from an ass hat who doesnt have the balls to post an image of himself. Babble on douche bag. : P : )


    Do you really think image of yourself as avatar makes your b**ls bigger or makes them at all? :)