How to get this sound?? (Zappa Cello / Viola demo)

I had been intrigued by the Dweez's cello patch and though it was a good start and no disrespect intended - I found paults's attempt a bit heavy in reverb versus a real cello, and relying too much on volume swells. I came up with a totally non-reverb version, played a very quick demo using no volume swells at all. See what you guys think.

I like the timbre! But the envelope is of course a guitar's one. Also, chromatic glissato doesn't help, if what you're after is a reasonable imitation.
IMO, for a perfect rendering you should kill the attack (through a volume pedal or the guitar's pot waiting for a Slow Attack stomp to be available!) and produce continuous glissatos through another pedal.
very interesting sound tho

I know this was an old minor discussion and my attempt at a cello sound really sucked, I admit!

This month's Guitar Player Magazine has a great interview with "The Dweez," Dweezil Zappa. Here is the important quote;

"I notice you step on the Electro-Harmonix POG2 quite a bit."
"Right. But I don't use it for any of the octave stuff. I only use it to delay the pick attack for an envelope sound. I can get various versions from sounding like a synth to sounding like strings in varying degrees (plays a violin-like passage)."
"That practically sounds bowed."

So despite his 2 Fractals, he uses this pedal for the cello/strings effect after all, who knew?!

Can anyone (? paults) use this info to improve on cello sounds on the Kemper where volume swells are not dictating the sound? Just a thought.

Ok, so I see there's little interest in this discussion... but Electro Harmonix has just come out with a pedal that (as Bill Rupert shows in his YouTube Demo) when used with the KPA, sounds just friggin' like a cello, or a violin, or an orchestra... with no volume swells needed at all. It's called the Mel9 - it's modelled after a Mellotron with multiple sounds available. It seems to be in high demand as it's on back order. I've got my name on one, looking forward to trying it out. Bill says it plays great in front of the KPA, no send/return loop required.

Just thought I'd share.

@prsgary - something about the way you tagged me in February prevented me from seeing the tag - perhaps it was the parentheses.

When new effects are added to the KPA, there may be something that can be used to delay the attack more than what we have some up with so far.

But, the EH pedal looks ideal, at this point.

+1 With so many different timbres and fx available in the Profiler, a Slow attack module would make me happy.

Oh, and a hold\freeze

Quote from prsgary

Ok, so I see there's little interest in this discussion... but Electro Harmonix has just come out with a pedal that (as Bill Rupert shows in his YouTube Demo) when used with the KPA, sounds just friggin' like a cello, or a violin, or an orchestra... with no volume swells needed at all. It's called the Mel9 - it's modelled after a Mellotron with multiple sounds available. It seems to be in high demand as it's on back order. I've got my name on one, looking forward to trying it out. Bill says it plays great in front of the KPA, no send/return loop required.

Just thought I'd share.

seen this as well.. Report back when you get one. I was never totally happy with cello sounds I came up with but a ebow and some tweaking made some cool stuff

Has someone made an official request on this forum already, or should i do it? I often miss my HD500 for exactly these reasons - it seems CK assumes that guitarists are not interested in synthetic sounds, but this isn't true, is it? At least i am as much interested in synthetic guitar sounds as i'm interested in realistic amp sounds. It's 50/50 really. If i had the money, i would've bought an AxeFX because of these abilities missing in the Kemper.

It's no big deal to include an envelope follower into the FX-stack, or at least an attack softener.

Quote from prsgary

I know this was an old minor discussion and my attempt at a cello sound really sucked, I admit!

This month's Guitar Player Magazine has a great interview with "The Dweez," Dweezil Zappa. Here is the important quote;

"I notice you step on the Electro-Harmonix POG2 quite a bit."
"Right. But I don't use it for any of the octave stuff. I only use it to delay the pick attack for an envelope sound. I can get various versions from sounding like a synth to sounding like strings in varying degrees (plays a violin-like passage)."
"That practically sounds bowed."

So despite his 2 Fractals, he uses this pedal for the cello/strings effect after all, who knew?!

Can anyone (? paults) use this info to improve on cello sounds on the Kemper where volume swells are not dictating the sound? Just a thought.

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Hi Gary, here is another awesome example

cheers
Frank

Nice Frank, thanks for sharing that video!

Just in case anyone is curious - I received my Electro-Harmonix Mel9 Melletron simulator pedal today, which Bill Ruppert so expertly demo'd on YouTube using his Kemper. Well I don't know what magical configuration he used, but after several frustrating hours of experimentation with various amps, speakers, and guitars - I could not come even close to simulating anything resembling the cello or flute sounds available on this pedal, supposedly. It sounds like such crap. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, don't know what that might be though. Do NOT buy this if you're looking for the Mellotron simulation, cello simulation, whatever... stay away from this disappointing pedal.

Mine is going back on Monday unless someone can't point out how I could be using it incorrectly (don't see how that's really possible, but...)

Quote from prsgary

I received my Electro-Harmonix Mel9 Melletron simulator pedal today, which Bill Ruppert so expertly demo'd on YouTube using his Kemper.

I tried last year the B9 and C9 from EHX. I sent back, because the band did not want to use because of puristic opinions. (When you see a guitar than it should sound like a guitar)
The first difficulty is the playing technique. Bill is really an extraordinary player.
I have seen you playing in a video and think that you can manage this also. It needs some practice.
The stand alone sound is getting used to. In the mix with the band this is easier.
I used a compressor before the pedal and delay/reverb after the pedal. It was sounding better.
I think that the orchestral sound, the strings, the flute and the choirs are not so bad. The other sounds at Bills Video sounds for me a little strange too. (but were good tweaked )
On the video a Kemper is visible. Maybe Bill used that.
The Mel9 is an interesting effect but it cannot replace a keyboard and I think it should not used to much.

But anyway, the first impression is important. If you don't like it as it is than it's better to send back.
Maybe it was a matter of expectations. Still I am fighting with me to buy. I think I know what to expect.

Quote from Sharry

I tried last year the B9 and C9 from EHX. I sent back, because the band did not want to use because of puristic opinions. (When you see a guitar than it should sound like a guitar)
The first difficulty is the playing technique. Bill is really an extraordinary player.
I have seen you playing in a video and think that you can manage this also. It needs some practice.
The stand alone sound is getting used to. In the mix with the band this is easier.
I used a compressor before the pedal and delay/reverb after the pedal. It was sounding better.
I think that the orchestral sound, the strings, the flute and the choirs are not so bad. The other sounds at Bills Video sounds for me a little strange too. (but were good tweaked )
On the video a Kemper is visible. Maybe Bill used that.
The Mel9 is an interesting effect but it cannot replace a keyboard and I think it should not used to much.

But anyway, the first impression is important. If you don't like it as it is than it's better to send back.
Maybe it was a matter of expectations. Still I am fighting with me to buy. I think I know what to expect.

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Hi, have in mind that CK is a great developer.
Cant wait for the new delays and maybe the reverbs. Whats the next step?
I think good guitar synth effects.
So i save my money and wait.

Cheers
Frank

Quote from Eltzejupp

I think good guitar synth effects.
So i save my money and wait.

Well, you are younger than me. You have more time

Quote from Sharry

Well, you are younger than me. You have more time

He he, but i wont play cello

Quote from Sharry

The first difficulty is the playing technique. Bill is really an extraordinary player.
I have seen you playing in a video and think that you can manage this also. It needs some practice.

Thanks Harry, but if I can't even play a single note or chord and have it sound like it's advertised or as in the demos, playing technique is not the issue.

Quote from prsgary

Thanks Harry, but if I can't even play a single note or chord and have it sound like it's advertised or as in the demos, playing technique is not the issue.

Well a feeling I have with all advertised sounds more or less
I think that the sound are always a little tweaked to the best. Good professional player and sound engineers stands behind.

Probably right.

Quote from prsgary

Thanks Harry, but if I can't even play a single note or chord and have it sound like it's advertised or as in the demos, playing technique is not the issue.

What kind of signal are you sending to the Mel9? Maybe it needs a clean signal? Just a guess...Can you post some "horrible" recording?

Quote from mrs-zambesi

What kind of signal are you sending to the Mel9? Maybe it needs a clean signal? Just a guess...Can you post some "horrible" recording?

I have tried a completely clean signal, sure, that was my first attempt at "fixing" this. I'd really hate to post poor sounds... bad for the rep... suffice it to say most of the sounds sound like poor cello sims, no flute, sax, brass effects at all. I have reached out to the EH forum, I'll see what they have to say, but thanks for the suggestion.

Quote from prsgary

I received my Electro-Harmonix Mel9 Melletron simulator pedal today, which Bill Ruppert so expertly demo'd on YouTube using his Kemper. Well I don't know what magical configuration he used,

Quote from Eltzejupp

On the video a Kemper is visible. Maybe Bill used that.

I went and checked out Rupert's Mel9 video and there is a KPA in the background BUT also on the very right hand side of the video you can see the corner of a Roland VG99 which is powered on so maybe he used this unit also.

I, too, was intrigued by the Mel9, especially if I could get it to sound like Rupe's demo, but am not sure if it really is needed, anymore than, say, a Korg Miku pedal.