Applications for MIDI transmission – user feedback requested

  • If we would enhance the delay effects within the Profiler this might make external devices redundant and add much more value for the majority of Profiler users. Most of the time I read or hear about external effect devices looped in this seems to be related to delay gear.


    Yes. Though I would love to see CC messages from exp pedals output to control remote gear, I'd rather have better delays & reverbs first.


    When the remote came out, the "octopus controller" claim led me to believe we would have full MIDI functionality and control over multiple devices and I only need it for 1 external device.


    Totally agree. The Remote is large and heavy. Leveraging the effort to carry it around by allowing it to control external gear would be very helpful. I would like to see additional MIDI controllers made redundant by having the KPA be the Mother Octopus we thought it would become.


    BTW, it would be worth it to me to spend an effects slot to get this. It would also allow me to create presets for this "effect" that I can easily reuse.

  • In addition to enhancing the output, enhancing the Rig Manager to set the currently available PC outputs would be very nice. Changing them from the KPA front panel is really a pain.

  • FC-1 doesn't take incoming MIDI yet, or I would do it this way.


    Crap. That's what I read on the vguitar forums (I think you posted in that thread too). Was hoping it wasn't what I thought I meant, but the worst is true.


    I wonder how long Fishman will take before they fix this. Why even have a midi input on the FC-1 if it doesn't accept anything ?(

  • This is also on the list, but again a question of priorities.


    If we would enhance the delay effects within the Profiler this might make external devices redundant and add much more value for the majority of Profiler users. Most of the time I read or hear about external effect devices looped in this seems to be related to delay gear.


    There are two obvious applications for sending CC from controls out over the MIDI ports:


    1. Control of external pedals. It's possible the profiler will get better delays and reverbs, but it will never be able to do everything. We've all bought about £2000 of profiler, plus guitars, basses (and in my case saxophones and cellos) it's not all that surprising that we'll end up with effects pedals. You promised us an octopus of control, we've not got it. I certainly bought the remote expecting that I'd be able to use it as a control centre for my existing gear, which it currently does not do - PC messages aren't enough.


    2. Recording parameter automation for re-amping etc. Being able to record a dry signal, but with CCs for e.g. morph would make re-amping actually useful. As it is, it's not something I'm ever going to bother with as I'd lose any performance controls I used when recording in the first place. If I'm putting e.g. a wah on my recording I probably want the same wah on the re-amped version, but that's not possible unless you're sending the pedal CCs out into something. I can send the CC back to the profiler, but without the ability to receive and record that data that's of very little use right now.


    I appreciate that you consider improving the built-in effects to be a priority (I personally don't agree, but I have the luxury of having outboard effects which I'm fairly sure are going to be better anyway), but we're talking about reading a number from memory and writing it to the MIDI output port at a regular interval, plus the configuration UI to control that, it's something that's orders of magnitude less costly in terms of developer time *and* DSP usage than a new and improved effect algorithm. It's frustrating to have something so fundamental to a MIDI implementation missing in an otherwise excellent piece of hardware, even more so when it seems like an easy thing to do (that's not a completely uninformed opinion, when I'm not playing music I write software, including embedded software).


  • 2. Recording parameter automation for re-amping etc. Being able to record a dry signal, but with CCs for e.g. morph would make re-amping actually useful. As it is, it's not something I'm ever going to bother with as I'd lose any performance controls I used when recording in the first place. If I'm putting e.g. a wah on my recording I probably want the same wah on the re-amped version, but that's not possible unless you're sending the pedal CCs out into something. I can send the CC back to the profiler, but without the ability to receive and record that data that's of very little use right now.


    I've banged on about this at least a couple of times in this thread, each time asking for a response, but have heard nothing, tomoinn. I've mentioned it in other threads too.


    For the way I'll be working (much as you described), it's actually a critical factor; I'd assumed from day one that any variable-voltage or MIDI-CC-based controller I plugged into the Kemper would have its movements reflected at the MIDI out port. As I've said before, my 30-year-old master keyboard can translate the movements of my 40-year-old (yeah, it's on its last legs!) analogue "MIDI-volume" pedal to a MIDI CC stream, so... how hard can it be?

  • Just look into what roland did with the gp-100 rack years ago. All you had to do was change what midi number an external control was internally routed to. For instance I could select a specific effect within the rack and then tell it to get controlled by MIDI channel 7, which is the expression pedal for the foot pedal I have. Or set MIDI channel 80 as a toggle so I could toggle on and off any effect or effect control I want. Even 16 at the same time with one button or pedal.This is 1990 technology that Kemper is currently failing at and really upsets me. I play live often and am not wanting to buy your special midi controller and then carry around your special 4 expression pedals to hook into it every show. It would be the most annoying thing ever.Your number 1 priority right now should be allowing your hardwa

  • I shared this in feature requests yesterday. I think it would solve everyone's midi problems and would be the simplest way to expand the KPA's midi abilities with minimal complexity:


    Midi Toggle “Effect” There’s been some talk for years now on how to improve midi capabilities, specifically in regards to toggling things without changing rigs. Here’s a simple way to integrate with or without the remote:


    Select an effects slot, either A, B, C, D X mod, del, or reverb. With “type” knob select “Midi Toggle” This “effect” gives you controls for the following: a midi channel, an “On” PC # and an “off” PC#. Thus On and off messages will be sent corresponding to the on and off status of the slot. Perhaps you could have option to do something similar with CC messages? Perhaps a second or third set of PC messages as well to control two devices at once? Since this “effect” is just sending a few number commands, it should take virtually no processing power. The best part is that you could then save these just like your presets for all the other effects, which you can now access with the browse knob. And of course, “Off” doesn’t have to correspond with your external device’s actual off status, so you could actually set it up so that you can toggle two different presets on this one device, say a heavy ambient reverb with a more subtle reverb. If two or more sets of messages could be sent on their own channels, you could also effectively toggle between effects from two different devices. Likewise, since it is such a simple non-processing intensive effect, there's no reason why you couldn't have several of these going in different slots, like you now can with the delay effects, so you could toggle different things with different switches.


    This benefits both Remote and third party midi controller users. Since these midi messages are saved within rigs, if you do some cleaning up in the Kemper and move some performances and rigs around, your midi controller doesn’t have to be reprogramed much, as all the messages are part of the rigs themselves. (other than making sure your midi controller toggles the correct effects slot on the Kemper of course)


    The only downside to this? You essentially lose an effects slot (depending on another feature I suggest below). However, if you are using this feature you are clearly getting at least some of your effects from external devices anyway and therefore you shouldn’t need all 8 effect slots in the rigs you are using these midi toggles anyway. Since it’s not global, but per rig, you of course still have your 8 effect slots on any rig that you don’t want to send these messages. Furthermore, you still possess the ability to send messages in the traditional way only on Rig change, which doesn’t take up an effects slot of course. Plus it doesn’t matter what slot you put the midi effect as the messages themselves aren’t a part of your signal chain.


    Further enhancements:


    1) Option to send these toggle messages as part of the KPA loop: it would also be possible to give these midi effect toggle controls as an extension of the parameters you can currently control in the effects loop. However a “loop always on” option would be useful in this case. In this scenario, you select the external loop effect to a slot, say X. You select “loop always on” and assign your midi on off messages and channel within this effect. The effect loop now stays on and just the on and off messages are toggled when you activate and deactivate the X slot. This would save a slot for those who are using external effects within the effects loop anyway. However, I could see many reasons why someone would not want the midi messages as part of the loop effect, which is why I think offering both a separate “midi toggle” effect that can be assigned to any slot and the ability to use them as part of the loop effect would be beneficial (for example someone using a midi-controlled multiple loop switcher up front for overdrive pedals, but who also has a pedal in the KPA loop wouldn’t want the midi toggle controls to be a part of the Kemper loop effect parameters)


    2) Perhaps allow these messages to morph as well? That is, a heal message and toe message. Obviously this wouldn’t allow you to get a gradual change in the in-between spots when morphing, but for those of us that use morphing only for instantaneous toggling of two sounds within one rig, this would be a welcome feature. (For that matter, why not allow morphing to reverse on off status of the effect slots at the heal and toe extremes? )


    3) "Skip first message" To make this “Midi Effect” feature even more useful, an additional choice along with channel, on, and off would be “Skip First Message.” If this option is selected, the first message that would be sent is not sent when the rig is selected. For example, say in a certain rig I send PC#5 as an On message and PC #100 as the off message, on channel 2, which controls my Eventide H9. I save the rig so that the status of this effect is in the “On” status, but I don’t want the On status message sent on rig change because my device was already sent this message. Why would this matter? PC #5 is an ambient delay/reverb that I’m using on this rig and the previous rig in the same song, I don’t want the H9 to get the same message twice. The other rig I’m coming from already told my H9 to turn on preset 5. So if the H9 gets that message again when I go to this rig, the H9 will receive the same message twice and then reset the delay trails. With “Skip first message” selected, the Kemper won’t send PC #5 to my H9 when I first select this rig, even though it’s saved in its On status. Instead it will not send a message until I press the button (or corresponding footswitch ) to turn the effect off, which I set to PC #100. However now if I press the button again to On status, it will now send PC# 5 and then continue to toggle between PC 5 and 100 as normal until I go to another rig. This would also be extremely simple to implement and could be ignored by users if its usefulness isn’t apparent to them.

  • I am new to MIDI. What would it take to push whatever button on the remote to make my DAW (Studio One) i. E. start and stop recording? Besides the hardware of course ... My interface is midi capable.

    The Educated Apes: Facebook | Bandcamp


    Kemper-Wiki
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    Main Rig: KPA Power Toaster + Profiler Remote, 2x Palmer 112 Cab (1x Celestion V30, 1x Celestion CB NEO), ME EP1-KP-GN, Dunlop Cry Baby 95Q, Gibson Memphis ES-339 '16, Gibson Melody Maker '14, Fender Thinline Cabronita '12

  • I am new to MIDI. What would it take to push whatever button on the remote to make my DAW (Studio One) i. E. start and stop recording? Besides the hardware of course ... My interface is midi capable.


    I think this depends on Studio One (which I also have but don't use).
    In Ableton Live for example it's very easy because it has a Midi Learn function that makes assignment of commands like start, stop, etc. very easy.

  • I am new to MIDI. What would it take to push whatever button on the remote to make my DAW (Studio One) i. E. start and stop recording? Besides the hardware of course ... My interface is midi capable.


    The Kemper is currently capable of sending midi PC messages on Rig changes, thus when changing rigs with buttons one to five on your remote. However, neither the Kemper or the remote by extension make midi changes without changing rigs. In other words, you can't assign one of the effect buttons to send a midi message. My above idea of a "midi toggle effect" should they like the idea and implement it or something similar, would give you the ability to send midi messages to external gear of all sorts that has midi capabilities, limited only by what parameters can be controlled via midi.

  • I am new to MIDI. What would it take to push whatever button on the remote to make my DAW (Studio One) i. E. start and stop recording? Besides the hardware of course ... My interface is midi capable.


    This would require a midi start/stop message to be transmitted, which the Kemper cannot do as yet. It is one of the feature requests that have been made.

  • This would require a midi start/stop message to be transmitted, which the Kemper cannot do as yet. It is one of the feature requests that have been made.


    Thanks, mate. Good to know. As I said I've never worked with midi so far but this would be an interesting application for me. Hopefully they'll make that happen. I also like what @Grooguit said. Some kind of "effect" that would enable midi functionality for the remote would be awesome to my mind.

    The Educated Apes: Facebook | Bandcamp


    Kemper-Wiki
    [email protected]


    Main Rig: KPA Power Toaster + Profiler Remote, 2x Palmer 112 Cab (1x Celestion V30, 1x Celestion CB NEO), ME EP1-KP-GN, Dunlop Cry Baby 95Q, Gibson Memphis ES-339 '16, Gibson Melody Maker '14, Fender Thinline Cabronita '12

  • Thanks, mate. Good to know. As I said I've never worked with midi so far but this would be an interesting application for me. Hopefully they'll make that happen. I also like what @Grooguit said. Some kind of "effect" that would enable midi functionality for the remote would be awesome to my mind.


    With any luck, we should see it in an upcoming firmware. It is just another kind of midi command after all. Hopefully they will be able to boost the number of channels that simultaneous communication is possible with as well.

  • Didn't read the past 6 pages but...


    To me sending midi CCs is interesting so I can record Pitch and Wah movement.
    Right now we're are using a sample player live which also has the ability to send Midi.
    So I'm using this midi track to control the Kemper, which works like a charm.
    Recording my Wah & Pitch movement would be great and more human like than "writing" it with the mouse cursor ;)