Weird that no-one mentioned it yet...

    This is weird. This thread is very informative in regard to those who are considering buying what people refer to as"top of the line modeler". I think it's gracious of Kemper to even host discussions about other gear that they made a specific category about other gear. I was in the same predicament a month ago deciding where to spend my hard earned dollars and my research lead me to choose the KPA. My research included reading this forum as well as other forums. Sure there's bickering, but most should have the intelligence to decipher real information from all the bickering. People might learn from my and others experiences.


    What's wrong with people finding the truth about an overly hyped AXE FX II and the need to almost have the knowledge of an electrical engineer and studio engineer combined to be able to get good sounds after never ending editing of presets that will have to be updated and reworked almost on monthly basis if updating to the latest firmware? Just because many on this board see the clear Amp Modeling superiority of the KPA, it doesn't mean that others who only read this forum can see the obvious.


    My conscious doesn't bother me one bit, sharing with others my great experience using the Kemper and recommending it over the AXE II and in the process help someone chose a better/Superior technology while saving dollars (almost over 25%). And to the topic of this thread, Yes it's weird that no one likes to mention how silly it is that that latest update to an extremely overpriced machine does nothing different that anyone can discern from the initial firmware almost half a decade ago. People need reminders not to get sucked into hype. What I love about the kemper is it sounds like the amp, not better or worse, the same.

    Quote from Dean_R

    This is weird. This thread is very informative in regard to those who are considering buying what people refer to as"top of the line modeler". I think it's gracious of Kemper to even host discussions about other gear that they made a specific category about other gear. I was in the same predicament a month ago deciding where to spend my hard earned dollars and my research lead me to choose the KPA. My research included reading this forum as well as other forums. Sure there's bickering, but most should have the intelligence to decipher real information from all the bickering. People might learn from my and others experiences.


    What's wrong with people finding the truth about an overly hyped AXE FX II and the need to almost have the knowledge of an electrical engineer and studio engineer combined to be able to get good sounds after never ending editing of presets that will have to be updated and reworked almost on monthly basis if updating to the latest firmware? Just because many on this board see the clear Amp Modeling superiority of the KPA, it doesn't mean that others who only read this forum can see the obvious.


    My conscious doesn't bother me one bit, sharing with others my great experience using the Kemper and recommending it over the AXE II and in the process help someone chose a better/Superior technology while saving dollars (almost over 25%). And to the topic of this thread, Yes it's weird that no one likes to mention how silly it is that that latest update to an extremely overpriced machine does nothing different that anyone can discern from the initial firmware almost half a decade ago. People need reminders not to get sucked into hype. What I love about the kemper is it sounds like the amp, not better or worse, the same.



    I do agree with some of the sentiments expressed in this post - but I also think everything has been said may pages ago.

    If this is all about "political correctness" maybe we should not talk about "other gear" in this forum.For obvious reasons.First of all we are all human beings which ofcourse all (and with now exceptions) like "bickering" or "revenge" for have been "abused" in other forums.Some others between us have "fear" about the way music goes and this concern should not be rediculed.Technology is a good thing but has done not much for better music during the last 10-15 years.This definitly needs more discussion.


    And @Dean has a point about all those "nerds" which also make me angry too.Days ago one of these guys accused me in the helix-thread that I would "put words in his mouth" or "schooling" him because I questioned his beloved helix-pedal and the "old way" of modeling.Ofcourse I never found out what words I put in his mouth because he never told me.Typical "Nerd behaviour" I may say.They cant "rock & roll" but they can excellent "tweak & talk"..


    Make things short..


    The potential customer of the KPA is not the same with the potential customers of the "rest" of the modelers.And the KPA-team should be very aware of this.I already believe they are.They know that the "typical KPA-customer" has sound as top priority.And the ability to profile his own tube amps.UI,flashy lights and editors belongs not to the top priorities.All of them are nice and usefull but not the reason some one would buy a KPA over any other digital guitar device.


    In the end this may be "a political thing" and if it is like this then indeed we should not be able to talk about "other gear" because this will be always a "nasty thing" with so many fanboys,sellers and hard competition out there.

    It's great to talk about other gear! It's the childish bickering, name calling and accusations that become tiresome.
    One of the great things about this forum is, (usually) people can have differing opinions and still treat each other with respect.

    Quote from telelogic

    It's great to talk about other gear! It's the childish bickering, name calling and accusations that become tiresome.
    One of the great things about this forum is, (usually) people can have differing opinions and still treat each other with respect.


    Amen to that. For the largest part, people are nice to each other, even those of differing opinions :)

    Quote from Frodebro

    Oh, the irony...


    There's no irony, :) the AXE FX Fan boys lived up to their nasty reputation proving again that they're uniquely disturbed individuals, Few AXe FX fans signed up to this forum, in this thread, specifically and only to call everyone "ignormamus" who dares ignore the AXE FX and other colorful adjective addressed at persons. There's a huge difference between when someone says "XYZ" effect pedal "Sucks" while someone attacks the person himself.


    I've read many places where PODs or Elven etc etc are trashed, I haven't seen anyone sign up into a forum to attack someone who says "POD is brittle, harsh and crappy". So sure I said that the AXE FX II sounds brittle, harsh and non musical and didn't use colorful terms. That's not trashing, that's my opinion based on first hand trying it.


    These looney Fan boys are unmatched, I see them more like a cult if anything and as despicable as they are, I can't help but feel sympathy for their unrealistic torment that they feel that they have to sign in any time they read something negative about their fake holly grail (Everyone knows it isn't a holly grail of anything except them).

    Edited 5 times, last by Dean_R ().

    Quote from Frodebro

    Oh, the irony...


    Couldn't stop myself to put it here, word by word from Kwantan Firmware, AZZE forumz:


    I can say that Quantum is no placebo, this shit is hot, "Quantum feels like a virgin on her first night, it's tight, right, and out of sight!!!!!!"


    There is one AZZE dude that uploaded pictures of two fingers with skin going out from playing - these guyz really dig it.... or maybe now it is really realer than real now. More realer than 100%? Gosh...




    That's hilarious! The gift that keeps on giving. If the AXE FX II was something mainstream, comedians would have a field day with some of this stuff. It's definitely funny to those who know digital modeling and I don't see anything wrong with a laugh here and there.


    If you think about it, Interestingly that behavior meats both definitions of funny: "funny ha-ha AND funny peculiar" ^^

    Edited once, last by Dean_R ().

    Like 1
    Quote from Frodebro

    There are a couple of Kemper owners that are just about as bad... ;)


    I don't doubt it,there will always be a couple of nut jobs in any large sampling of any group of humans, but the number is laughably large when it comes to the AXE FX. I'm not suggesting you go to the gear page, but if you ever do, just check out any AXE FX thread about any new firmware and you're guaranteed quite a few "Funny Peculiar" almost instantly.


    A lot of the time I get a chuckle out of it, but as soon as I see someone with negative sentiment about the AXE who's quickly discredited by legions of fan boys and this someone with negative sentiment about the AXE FX later disappear with all their content deleted, it looses most of its humor and it reveals a disturbing trait that the fan boys owner/s of that forum seem to possess. It's classic symptoms of passive aggressive behavior that has gone untreated for years. It's fortunate for society that these weirdos only have control over a forum on a website not anything of significance with all due respects to all the wonderful moderators on most website who actually encourage free speech who don't delete contents and members only because they don't like what they read.


    Getting back to humor, it's very useful and eye opening in many situations, and in this situation it's really hard for most to miss the irony, "funny Peculiar" and dare I say ignorance that's very clear to those who know and who should know that every time an AXE FX firmware is released, legions of fanboys claim it to be more realistic when the AXE FX was never ever conceived to be realistic representation . Sometimes I wonder how can that many people be so ignorant (not knowing- literal meaning and not an insult) to this simple fact and their celebrating accuracy but they seem to have missed to RTFM of an extremely expensive piece of gear they purchased (probably blindly based on artists endorsement)


    Talking about about irony, check out this irony, which goes back to the main topic of this thread. I researched the AXE FX to understand what it is and it has nothing to do with accurate modeling. These are not my words , this is directly from the AXE FX manual. Yet there's so much noise and hoopla about accuracy and realism. To me, this thread points to the obvious mother of all ironies.
    Here's irony from the Axe FX manual :


    "What is the Axe-Fx? What is the Axe-Fx? Well, let's start by telling you what it isn't. It's not a modeler in the strict sense. Although it has cabinet emulation and different amplifier "types" it does not attempt to model any effect exactly. "


    Here's the link to the AXE FX in case you think I made that up:
    http://www.fractalaudio.com/do…Axe-Fx-Ultra-Standard.pdf


    Just in case someone might point out that this was the AXE FX Ulta and now there's the AXE FX II. The irony is even more ironic :D


    From the AXE II Manual: From the preface paragraph about "What's New"


    "The Axe-Fx II takes "real amp tone and feel" to the next level, "
    Here's the link
    http://www.fractalaudio.com/do…e-Fx-II-Owners-Manual.pdf


    Let me finish by saying: how do you start with a product AXE FX standard that "does not attempt to model any effect exactly. " and end up with AXE II that "takes "real amp tone and feel" to the next level," If real amp tone was never ever pursued in the early design. The simple answer: the early Montra was what all the AXE FX Ultra users chanted "Better than the real amp, it's not about real" until the Kemper successfully cloned, duplicated the sound and dynamic of tube amps (not a snapshot), all the sudden, "The Axe-Fx II takes "real amp tone and feel" to the next level, ". How do you take something that was never their to a new level!!? ?(


    That's what I call irony.

    Edited 6 times, last by Dean_R ().

    Like 1
    Quote from telelogic

    It's great to talk about other gear! It's the childish bickering, name calling and accusations that become tiresome.
    One of the great things about this forum is, (usually) people can have differing opinions and still treat each other with respect.


    Cant agree more.
    But obviously there are many people in many blogs with an "agenda".For example that the Profiler is "just one more modeler" and not much different from any other modeler in the market.I have read this so often (also here in this forum) that I could not withstand trying to start a serious discussion about this.Not to defend "my toy".I could not care less.What I care about are "great ideas".. ;) ..."great new concepts"..


    I also care about the fact that we can now be part of the "sound developing".Funny enough that so many guys who talk about how the "future potential" of the old style modeling (I mean these devices which sound only like the developers think they should) completely deny this.Not only this.Some of these people obviously try to downgrade the importance of the new method(profiling).I dont know if there is always an "agenda" behind this or not.I dont even care.But at least I want a serious discussion about this issue.Till yet this was not possible.Strange enough the persons who avoided this discussion have been with only a few exceptions mostly "fierce supporters" of the FAS or Line6 products.Always with the same argumentation (aka "better UI" or "routing capability" of these products).


    For me it is important to say this:To be part of the sound process,to decide myself which sounds out of a big,huge pool I like to include in my soundtool or to even produce these sounds myself is absolutely essential.We could compare this with the difference between the idea of "direct democracy" and the existing "parliament democracy".The KPA is indeed the first "direct democracy"-tool for us guitar players.I believe it is very important to stress that out.


    I am not sure if I could make myself clear..I am not sure if my english is good enough,anyway,at least I gave it a try.


    Greetings.

    Quote from Nikos

    Cant agree more.
    But obviously there are many people in many blogs with an "agenda".For example that the Profiler is "just one more modeler" and not much different from any other modeler in the market.I have read this so often (also here in this forum) that I could not withstand trying to start a serious discussion about this.Not to defend "my toy".I could not care less.What I care about are "great ideas".. ;) ..."great new concepts"..


    You encounter people with those 'agendas' with lots of different types of gear, not just the "Axe-FX/KPA Debate". I know of a couple people on a couple of different boards that dislike Mesa/Boogies so much that they cannot help but inject their opinions in every Mesa thread they see. As a longtime Boogie owner (currently still have five of them), I admit that at first the temptation was strong to jump in and respond to their rants, but I quickly realized that it wouldn't change a thing, so I just let them have their little rants alone, and I don't pay them any attention. They're not going to change THEIR minds and they're not going to change MY mind, so worrying about it is pointless. Just use what works for you, and don't worry about what other people think about it. They're not paying for your gear, YOU are, so use what YOU like.

    @Frodebro


    I am a new user of the KPA and a "very secure" user of the same amps for over 20 years.For the simple reason they always "worked for me".This is not my issue.I just wanted to point out that not every "honest opinion" on the world wide web is as innocent as we all would like it to be.I guess this is no big news.

    Quote from Nikos

    @Frodebro


    ....This is not my issue.I just wanted to point out that not every "honest opinion" on the world wide web is as innocent as we all would like it to be.I guess this is no big news.


    Very true, for instance they will use the word "Snap shot" to describe the Kemper. A snap shot isn't dynamic!! It's an injected word to imply lack of detail with clear intention to obscure facts. AXE FX, POD HD, ELVEN, they all are attempting to model the same thing, the sound of a miced tube amp with dynamic! Guess which one has the most dynamic. Almost all who tried or owned the these devices at one point raved about the dynamic range and finger responsiveness that Kemper has. How could "Snap Shot" be used to describe KPA without it being a part of agenda to intentionally falsify information!!


    It's part of the same agenda that falsely states that the AXE FX is intended to accurately model the whole amp, when it's clearly stated in the manual that it doesn't. "It's not a modeler in the Strict sense" , yet it accurately models the whole amp. To be fair I think few inject these agendas and the rest of the Cheaple who follow blindly accept it as facts and start using the same terminology out of not knowing (ignorance).

    Quote from firepile


    Even in this thread there is at least one. :D


    In this thread there's actually two that I'm aware of that do't own the KPA, but had to sign in this forum for no other reason but to defend the AXE FX by insulting others only and not to participate in any serious discussion. If you happen to own the AXE FX II, then that's great, it might be good tool for you, but it's not intended to be accurate as I pointed out in the above post that you choose to ignore all what was in it and choose to take a personal jab at me by addressing one of my comments.


    The subject matter of this thread is how uninformed buyers, who don't realize that they purchased the AXE FX that will never be an accurate modeler, expecting it to be an accurate modeler and celebrating with every firmware update how close it has become.


    You gotta admit this is funny that anyone who has bought the AXE FX and is celebrating accuracy with every firmware clearly has bought the wrong product. I'm not a fan of the Kemper or a fan of anything but I read both manuals, the AXE FX's and the Kemper's before I purchased the Kemper because I wanted an accurate modeler and I don't want to spend all that money on a modeler that's "not a modeler in the Strict sense" and that "does not attempt to model any effect exactly." Of course these nut jobs have no legs to stand on or nothing to hang their hats on except personal attacks. Instead of personal attacks, why can't they be civilized and address the actual topic. If anyone wants accuracy, they buy the Kemper and if they choose to be misinformed thinking they're buying accuracy then they can go with the AXE FX.


    That is my opinion and I believe I made and provided fair documentation to support it and I haven't seen anywhere or heard from anyone anything that shows the AXE FX to even be considered a contender when it comes to accurate amp modeling except for personal attacks and crying fowl.


    When someone buys the wrong product and has to emotionally defend his purchase, it seems that we end up with very angry folks who don't want to admit that they bought the wrong product.With sharing my experience and research, I would be very happy to know that I have saved any number of guitar players who value modeling accuracy from making the wrong decision.


    This clearly isn't even debatable, as can clearly be seen and I don't know in how many ways can someone point the obvious except to say: RTFM before you buy the wrong product.let me spell it out to you one last time with some help for the AXE FX manual regarding AXE FX.
    "It's not a modeler in the Strict sense" it's how some engineer thought the amps should sound like, and it's not about accuracy. It can be made to sound good after intensive labor and technical knowledge but it's not accurate. You want accuracy, buy Kemper and forget about the editing, leave that to the engineers and you will enjoy much more time playing not editing parameters that the average guitar player can't understand.

    Edited 5 times, last by Dean_R ().

    I think it's cool on the one hand that Fractal keeps working on their sound problem.


    For me, it would be frustrating as I don't like the idea of sound patches changing. I'd rather wait for the development to be done and then purchase it.


    Kemper has made some subtle changes to it's tone as options. You don't have to use them. My TAF profiles sound the same as they did 2.5 years ago and so if I recorded then I could still go back and punch in using the same profile.


    So for stability of tone, the KPA is more suited to my style. That and it arrived as a stable and relatively finished tone product (I'm aware of one high end fix and one low end profile change that is a check box option)


    But for those who like the sound of the Fractal and feel their money is getting dividends with sound upgrades, if they're happy, thats all that matters. As long as the facts of these differences are commented honestly, then potential buyers can make something of an informed decision if they're unable to play them first hand. Which is the only way to tell. I've given up on listening to clips. They don't tell the whole story to a player.


    As to fanboi's, well, many of us have been there. Bottom line is, it's obvious who is and their opinion is taken with the proper measure as a result. As it should be. Myself included.