Tested the new firmware. Sounds good. Very good. KPA sounds good too. Rather disappointing that a Kemper beta tester would behave like Gianfranco has been lately with his constant attacks on Fractal. Both products are very good and I own and use both. Right now I would say the Fractal gets more of my playing time. The new firmware has really improved the sound and feel and the effects are better than the Kemper so I use the Fractal more. Maybe next month that will change.
Weird that no-one mentioned it yet...
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I have followed TGP for many, many years, and there is a clear bias shown by the owners and moderators. Many of them are Axe-FX owners, and it's clear over many years that they favor Axe-FX positive posts while often censoring the negative posts. They'll also frequently pseudo-troll any posts that are positive towards the competition like Kemper and Line6. I am sure the huge Line6 Helix thread (something like 300+ pages!) is driving them crazy right now since they clearly can't shut it down, but it is giving so much limelight to the Helix and "upsetting" their baby which they so dearly love. But hey -- more posts and free content means more page views and clicks -- and more $$ to the forum owners. They should be happy!
Regarding the new Quantum FW ... yet another FW which is "more realer" than the last and "a gamechanger." How many times have I heard that from TGP and SP? The previous poster is correct. You need a double-blind test with all previous firmwares -- as well previous HW -- like the Standard and Ultra. And use similar patches that have been tweaked to their best. And then do the listening test with -- of course CLR monitors! My guess is that people can tell some of the early FW from the latest, but is FW 20 really a quantum leap over FW 19? And is an optimized patch on the Ultra that much worse than one on the XL II, etc, etc. ? I doubt it.
BTW, I own a KPA and an Ultra. Did not feel the need to jump on the "Apple-like" marketing train and upgrade every 2 years and get an XL II, Mark blah, blah. The Ultra is used as an excellent effects unit. I like the KPA better for amp tones.
Display MoreI have compared the quantum firmware with previous but barely notice anything when A-B.
Trying to improve something is good but I never agree with fractals fw hype marketing.
As with other Axe fx firmwares I find them all different sounding, some better, some worse, some just a little different.
I have a strong feeling that the "quantum v2" next year will be called even more tubey. But where is the original source for us users to compare it with?Here's an A-B clip from another Axe fx user.
External Content soundcloud.comContent embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.It's easy to test the marketing claims that every new Axe fx 2 firmware have amp modeling that sounds better than the previous fw by doing a blind test random comparison with all of the firmwares. Record a reamped track through each firmware using the same IR and let you and all your friends rank them from 1-19. Perform this blind test 10-20 times. Nobody will get a 1-19 result, far from it. And it will be different each time. To make it even more interesting include sound reamps from Axe fx standard and Ultra fw.
If the marketing is true, the test result would show a very clear preference of Axe fx 2 pointing from 1-19.
It's easy to market firmwares this way since they don't provide a real source amp rig for the users to directly compare with in the first place.
If Fractal really had confidence in their marketing claims that each firmware update is an improvement in amp modeling sound, wouldn't this blindtest be the ultimate marketing tool for them, to show us users how each firmware is so much better as it's marketed to be? With the kemper it's easy to directly A-B compare with the original amp source.
Another quantum thread on tgp
http://www.thegearpage.net/boa…technology.1614115/page-2Blindtesting ALL firmwares randomly, often random repeating a fw to mix it up, is the way to go and nobody will pass that test. The result will be different every time, using the same IR and also reamping.
Firmware updates sounding 120% realerer can go on forever as long as there is strong conviction and no reference amp source to compare with. -
He was actually considering suing them and I told him, he was out of his mind ,. Sure he could sue them under many laws that they're breaking (falsifying records etc. , freedom of speech is protected under the law in the united states) but who gives a crap to waste time about some petty nerds who's childish behavior will eventually run them out of business. At any rate, if anyone reading this who got banned from the gearpage, check your IP address by doing a quick search and make sure those nerds didn't report you as a spammer.
Blindtesting ALL firmwares randomly, often random repeating a fw to mix it up, is the way to go and nobody will pass that test. The result will be different every time, using the same IR and also reamping.
Firmware updates sounding 120% realerer can go on forever as long as there is strong conviction and no reference amp source to compare with.The REALLY interesting thing (and in some ways, the most relevant) would be to do the blind testing between the Axe-FX, the kemper and a real amp (and why not; an amp sim as well)
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For me that is not relevant, they can all sound great, software, hardware or real amp. Nobody can tell what amp gear is used on an album or recording by listening to a large amount of examples.
What is relevant to me is:
1-Can something sound and feel like the real amp source when A-B testing.
2-Can a company back up the marketing claims of having constantly improved the firmware sounds when all firmwares are blindtested 1-19 (+ include previous model fw also). So a whole bunch of fw, new and old in a big random mix. If the claims are true then the results would be very clear. First the older products fw, then 1-19. The results will be all over the place, so what was marketed as the realest will be before or after what was claimed to be the realerer. -
For me that is not relevant, they can all sound great, software, hardware or real amp. Nobody can tell what amp gear is used on an album or recording by listening to a large amount of examples.
What is relevant to me is:
1-Can something sound and feel like the real amp source when A-B testing.
2-Can a company back up the marketing claims of having constantly improved the firmware sounds when all firmwares are blindtested 1-19 (+ include previous model fw also). So a whole bunch of fw, new and old in a big random mix. If the claims are true then the results would be very clear. First the older products fw, then 1-19. The results will be all over the place, so what was marketed as the realest will be before or after what was claimed to be the realerer.Agreed on the first point
Second point: Who cares? Unless YOU (the reader) feel you've been deceived and have actually bought a unit?
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Digital modellers will never ever achieve that sound , do not be naive .
On the end,for misinformed guys or those who forgot it , KPA is a Profiler AMP .
End of story .
Read this line and have to give my standard reply - the KPA is a modeler - just a really really good one that doesn't model based on a theoretical schematic of a valve amp schematic but rather by listening to and - get this, this is the important part - emulating what it 'hears' when activating the valve amp using know impulses and frequencies. The KPA does not have valves in it therefore it IS modelling a valve amp when it recreates the sounds as it does. The KPA is a modeler - just like all the others - it just comes down too what the modeler model is based on - a theoretical "imagined" sound, or the actual amp sound which is know by listening to it and examining what is heard.
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Read this line and have to give my standard reply - the KPA is a modeler - just a really really good one that doesn't model based on a theoretical schematic of a valve amp schematic but rather by listening to and - get this, this is the important part - emulating what it 'hears' when activating the valve amp using know impulses and frequencies. The KPA does not have valves in it therefore it IS modelling a valve amp when it recreates the sounds as it does. The KPA is a modeler - just like all the others - it just comes down too what the modeler model is based on - a theoretical "imagined" sound, or the actual amp sound which is know by listening to it and examining what is heard.
Agreed
Also, I think it''s naive to say that digital modeling will NEVER achieve the tube amp sound (profiler or no profiler). It's going to happen sooner or later! -
Tested the new firmware. Sounds good. Very good. KPA sounds good too. Rather disappointing that a Kemper beta tester would behave like Gianfranco has been lately with his constant attacks on Fractal. Both products are very good and I own and use both. Right now I would say the Fractal gets more of my playing time. The new firmware has really improved the sound and feel and the effects are better than the Kemper so I use the Fractal more. Maybe next month that will change.
Two week ago I had the choice and money to buy either or both. After extensive research, as an educated consumer, I ended up with the KPA. With the KPA, I can have the best of both worlds, if needed, as some fellows who own both have been profling the AXE FX models also. The tone Match that the AXE FX has is a gimmick to compete with Kemper.Everyone says they both sound good to be polite, but so does my POD , Eleven Rack and real world tube amps into impulse loaders to use the same polite approach. But the simple fact that some people constantly keep ignoring is that the KPA sounds better than all these solutions. Forgetting about the obnoxious ownership at fractal the needlessly feel they need to attack the competition KEMPER Amps that made and still makes fractal look like they're standing still regardless how many firmware they churn every month, guitar players are voting world wide with their hard earned dollars.
KPA has sold tens of thousands of unit. What KPA sells in one day might be more than Fractal sells in a year! Considering the number of professional musicians and hobbyist, weekend warriors who are using Kemper, the AXE FX II or III will always be irrelevant except for the few who own it. You don't have to be smart to quickly realize that Kemper is way better but you also quickly realize that you can't say that out loud otherwise you're offending a very loud few vocal minority that will stop at nothing at making up sneaky lies about what they perceive as competition. Those people should wake up and smell the coffee! KPA has left them in the dust from a business prospective.
The KPA is now the de facto number one Studio and stage device that replaces tube amps. Fractal churning firmware every month is meaningless as the race is over and the battle is over from business prospective from the first day the KPA was released. Where's the AXE II? You can't even find it in you local music store because it's simply irrelevant to most if not all guitar players.
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Scott is a part owner of TGP but doesn't moderate the digital/modeling subforum. I'd be shocked if any bans were for anything other than outright rules violations. I've been a member since 2002, and before that when it was the PRS forum. Scott has his biases, as do we all, but I've never seen him show any lack of integrity.
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Scott is a part owner of TGP but doesn't moderate the digital/modeling subforum. I'd be shocked if any bans were for anything other than outright rules violations. .
Well be prepared to be shocked my friend. There were quite a few members banned without even a warning simply because they posted negatively about the AXE FX, and to add insult to injury there IP addresses were falsely reported by the gearpage as spammers as I stated above. You can't get any more pathetic than that. If you don't believe me ask this website if you happen to know someone who works there how many false reports about IP addresses came from the gearpage or even if you don't they might disclose that information. That's the AXE FX hidden marketing campaign for you, delete and falsify information but don't bother comparing or showing the amps that they claim they model for people to judge how accurate there modeling is, but to be honest, they just moved from G3 to Quantum, so it must be very accurate now. Who needs unbiased critical thinking anymore. -
I can't make heads or tails of that website. And even if I could, I'd want to get the other side of the story before I decided who to believe.
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Scott is a part owner of TGP but doesn't moderate the digital/modeling subforum. I'd be shocked if any bans were for anything other than outright rules violations. I've been a member since 2002, and before that when it was the PRS forum. Scott has his biases, as do we all, but I've never seen him show any lack of integrity.
I'd say if you were part owner of a forum -- you are well beyond a moderator and can pretty much do whatever you want in any of the sub-forums.
SP's posts these days are not as bad as before. You have to read his posts carefully. Regarding glowing posts of anything non-Fractal, he'll say that sounds/tones are subjective and opinions are just that, etc. etc. Then he'll subtlely stick in his opinion and phrase it like a fact.
And of course, each Fractal FW is a "gamechanger." Just like his opinions were of his choice of monitors. Look back at the history. First it was QSC which was so awesome, then RCF, now CLR. Google it and you will see. He's no longer credible in my opinion.TGP is full of guys like this. There's a guitar guy named Matt who is similar. Every new, wildly expensive guitar he gets is the best. Then a few months later, it goes on the Emporium and he gets a new toy. Sponsors should have probably wised up on giving him free stuff.
It isn't just the Axe-FX that there are biases for on TGP. Way back, when Ceriatone hit the market with his awesome clone amp kits, there was a huge backlash from people in the US -- who were basically doing the same thing (cloning Dumble amps, etc.). It was brutal. And racist too. And the moderators/owners did nothing. Even though Fuchs, Bludo, Two-Rock, etc. -- almost all boutique amp makers in the States do the same thing -- clone amps. They had to defend their over-priced products, and used TGP to do it with no repercussions.
I am not saying TGP is full of junk like this. It can be a very useful and informative forum. But newbies should be careful of the opinions and advice given as they don't know the history of some of its zealots.
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Rather disappointing that a Kemper beta tester would behave like Gianfranco has been lately with his constant attacks on Fractal. Both products are very good and I own and use both.
Marty, I never attacked the Axe-Fx as a product. I criticize human behaviours that I find unacceptable. And being a tester here doesn't mean I can be treated "with fish on my face", like we say here! LOL
It would be like saying that since you are a Democrat you can't bash Reps because you belong "to the other group"? This doesn't make much sense to me, in all friendliness X)
Have you ever expressed similar concerns on the FAS forum about the way the boss there improperly and impolitely criticizes the Profiler? I am sure you haven't. Now I'd be curious to know why, even tho I have been banned from there for much less, and long before I even owned a Profiler.
Note: I have never actually received a ban, at one point I just realized I could not log in any more. I just thought that the site was down for some reason (it took literally tens of minutes to load any page).
Then, one day i happened to visit it from a different machine, and it worked flawlessly and as usual! I logged in then, and the same issues reappeared. I then discovered that other "unwanted" users had experienced the same, and received the same treatment.
Note: I never attacked anything on anybody, and just very politely expressed my opinions. I can't be sure about this, but since I was very careful when on the FAS forum to be correct and respect that private place, I am pretty sure that I have been "banned" for the things (as polite as usual) that I was writing on TGP about the Axe.Last but not least, my attitude and my ideas have not changed the least before and after my position of b-tester, which is quite recent BTW. I am coherently continuing to express what I believe is right and proper, about any product. No-one buys me, not even Kemper or Atomic Amps
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When I got into modeling I did frequent the gearpage quite often. The AXE FX fans attacks on anyone who said anything less than praise really ticked me off. It's like whenever anyone mentioned the AXE FX, they must say or recite some praise and worship, otherwise they would be scrutinized, discredited and attacked personally. The attackers remained and the offender is banned with ridicule. That completely turned me off and on principal alone, I didn't want to give my money to a company who encourages goons and mafia mentality geeks, clearly to promote the idea that the AXE FX is somehow beyond scrutiny.
Fortunate for me, C Kemper has made a product, that I know and observe to be light years ahead of the AXE II that still uses archaic logarithmic design, that leaves many aspects as "simply can't be modeled" as stated by the founder of fractal himself. I know I posted a link to this before, but even if I agreed with fractal and the gearpage on principal (had they possessed some integrity) and was willing to buy from them, their product is clearly inferior in Amp Modeling and effects quality I might add. Who has the time to figure out what the speaker resonance frequency of an impulse response is. If a guitar player doesn't know the resonance frequncy, he or she would have to settle for the approximation default that is guaranteed to be off. That's one of the reason why the AXE FX sounds harsh in comparison to the Kemper and to other recorded tube amps.
If you factor the other items that "simply can't be modeled" all you have is the equivalent of artificial sweetners when compared to sugar or honey. You drink enough artificial sweetners and you somehow get used to them and you no longer care for honey because the artificial sweetner has become sweeter than real sugar or honey. I never cared for artificial sweetners and still use honey in my tea. I also bought a kemper Profiling Amp because I don't want artificial amps with the wrong speaker resonance frequency. In case you think I'm making stuff up here's the link to where cliff states ""There are certain aspects that simply can't be modeled and require user intervention."
http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/a…itle=AMP_block_parameters -
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Cripes!
I've lived at the unofficial MOTU forum (UnicorNation, not MOTUNation) for at least 10 years, and the consensus there is that it's rude not to include your plug-in, I/O interfacing and computer hardware specs in your sig. It expedites troubleshooting for obvious reasons.
I've included a rough "contextual" summary of my "rig" in my sig since day one here, thinking it was the proper thing to do. I appreciate this "European" take on the matter 'though; the aforementioned forum is a US one after all.
Sorry if my sig gave the impression I'm an arse. I mean, I am an arse, but I'd prefer not to give that impression. You know the one - two dents in the sofa imparted by a pair of butt cheeks.
Consider it removed (the sig, not either of my cheeks) until someone convinces me to reinstate it.
i wouldnt worry about it monkey man. do what you do. its all good.
I like you attitood, bob; thanks mate.
No worries - put it in your sig if you want to! And I agree - it helps troubleshooting. And you can sometimes guess which genres the person in question plays/prefers. So you can e.g. weigh the opinion regarding metal tones between the guy with 3 seven strings versus the guy with a 1961 telecaster
Ha ha. Thanks Michael.All good points.
I guess I just jumped to the wrong conclusion.
I'd actually not noticed it on anyone's posts here.
Please accept my apologies for any offence I may have caused.
No wuckin' forries, teleologic. Offence? Impossible, really; there's insufficient ego present.I did feel bad 'though 'cause I don't want to falsely represent myself (says the ape!); I'm not a proud or boastful person and sure hope nobody read this twit... I mean, trait into my signature.
I'll accept Moosehead beer as I've not been able to get my grubby lil' mitts on it down here in decades. Send as much as you can to:
M. Man
JunglevilleThank you in advance, matey.
This is exactly why.
Instead of constantly telling people what you have in your rig when asking for help (which is a pain to have to list it every time), it's already there. I do this on other gear forums as well.
Good to hear, Carl.Yeah, I've always done it on BeerGutz, VDrums, Roland Clan, Line6 and so on too.
Thank you for your "encouragement" (it's taken that way), mate.
Nothing bad in listing your gear\tools in your signature!
I do see this as a US thing culturally speaking, it seems to me that in EU this is less frequent (or, let's say it is less frequent in the South Vs. Anglo-Saxon Countries).
I am not referring to those forums where people mostly talk about troubleshooting (computers, A\V, cars... I am a member on a Sony-related forum and it's part of the community's rules to list your A\V devices).
It seems to me that listing your 10 guitars is not strictly needed for troubleshooting, and is more a cultural thing. By this I'm no way bashing or criticizing the habit of course! Just a "note of colour", as we say here
Ha. Yeah. Hard to disagree, mate.It also invites ppl to pm you about how you like certain gear they are considering
Yup.Yup
Yup yup... I mean, woof woof...I think it's very relevant to check how biased people are!! People tend to recommend what they already have. It's nice to see if somebody recommending a specific preamp ONLY has that specific preamp etc etc.
The ol' bias trick... er, check, eh 99?Are you saying that if someone recommends something only they should not use it in order to be more credible?
On a more serious note... what people say about anything won't make it sound better nor worse than how it sounds, IMO, regardless if they own the gear or not. Many people like things I don't (and the other way around).
What I want to get from someone else's advises is not how they like a device, but some food for the mind. "It's incredible!" or "it's crap!" doesn't help the least.
Granted, opinions will always be opinions, but "keep in mind that if you switch Cab off for the power oputput you'll have cabs off on the Monitor out as well" would be something useful for mer to know, regardless the poster owning the unit or not.
Hey mate, keep in mind that if you switch Cab off for the power oputput you'll have cabs off on the Monitor out as well, OK? LOLHope this helps.
freedom of speech doesn't mean you can use someone else's property to broadcast your beliefs. Only the content of your speech is protected, not the method of distribution. Otherwise, forums couldn't censor at all, like posts full of spam and personal attacks.
Not defending The Gear Page, and after I learned the truth about them, I stopped going there. That's the best you can do - just ignore them.
I only visited for one long reading session and my Bias / BS Detector™ blew a fuse, bobbo.I didn't bother to join, and I'd heard / read no "3rd-party" opinions or stories such as we've seen here, and of which I'm sure there'd be many.
To all on sunday... I mean, and sundry:
You're awesome. You rose to the chimp hinge and I've been sufficiently convinced to reinstate the ol' signature. Thank you ever so much for chiming in, all of you!
Just don't think I'm a dick when you see it. My signature, that is. I mean, I am a dick, but... hang on... we've been here already and it's been established that I'm a bum. Guess I'm both.
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Hey mate, keep in mind that if you switch Cab off for the power oputput you'll have cabs off on the Monitor out as well, OK? LOL
... That's what friends are for...
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LOL yeah.
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Here another life-time banned oldschooler and known FAS Chucklehead.
- FAS site; just a Marketing & Promotion tool
- FAS products; just copy the features of your competition and give them another name
- FAS strategy; shout out as often and loud as you can you are the best and some will believe you
- FAS moderators; a waste of bandwithJust erase de F and you have exactly that. A Ractal Audio System.
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So funny -- there's a thread on the FAS forum about too many people using the "sounds more real" phrase! Tells you that even the regulars are sick of the Fractal fanboys and all their hyperbole.
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I saw another post on the gearpage where someone observes that AXE FX users no longer compare the New firmware to the actual amp, but they compare it to previous firmware. All the fan boys voted that post up, indicating that they no longer question how close it is to the real amp, presumably because it's been like amps a long time ago and now it's just getting better! At least that's how I understood.it .
Someone needs to tell these guys to show one and only one comparison where Fractal actually compared the AXE FX to the original Amps it models. Based on what I've seen, most if not all the modeling is done only based on paper schematics and those amps are long gone, if they were ever used.
I'm not sure if I'm in the minority, but I truthfully never liked the sound of the AXE FX, it always sounded too high fi and artificial to my ears. Before Kemper came out, sometime in 2010 or 2011 I bought the Eleven Rack and thought it felt and sounded better than the AXE FX.
