Few random thoughts on new Fractal, Helix, etc

    I'm fortunate enough to own a bunch of really good tube amps and cabs. And my use of the profiler has been to make profiles of those amps for myself and others. So what I'm mentioning here is from that frame of reference.


    The Kemper sounds like the amp you're miking up. Period. There are a few exceptions here and there, but most of the amps I and others profile, it nails. I've had several guitarists over here bring their favorite amp, and we've hooked up their amp in my live room, miked it up, set up the Kemper and they can't tell the difference between their amp and the profile. That tells me that while we may get new firmware updates with effects and goodies here and there (where the hell is my delay available in any fx slot!) the core tone of our Kemper is already there. Yes, there have been slight improvements to the profiling but nothing that would invalidate what you did in the past. One of my bands has another guitarist, he uses a Kemper also. His favorite profile for live use is one of my Bogner XTCs that I profiled in 2013.


    I know it's easy to be swayed by hype on any side, but if you're a Kemper user that bought one and uses profiles you didn't create, realize that what you're hearing on profiles is what that amp sounded like when it was profiled. Yes, some profiles sound better to us than others, and some amps are perceived as better than others by us... but it's very accurate to the original source. Being able to compare instantly the profile and the source/target amp is Kemper's greatest strength. Why listen to hype when you can just see for yourself?


    I read the thread about Quantum or whatever the latest FW update for AxeFX is - more power to them! I can understand how some of our users can be a little snarky towards Cliff, he's taken potshots at the Kemper for years. Everything from some grand conspiracy against him to the processing power to frequency range, etc. Plus hearing them go on after every firmware - THIS is the firmware that is a game changer. ... until the next game changer.


    Use what you like, whether it's Kemper, Fractal, Line6, whatever. My opinion: the Kemper got it right the first time and all of these other products affect me as much as an ant fart on a windy day.


    Pete

    100% agree but on the flip side of that coin, the profiles dont HAVE to sound just like what the real rig sounded like. You can tweak them as though they are the real rig and you have a big window before the tone starts to deviate from what you can do with the real rig. So not only does the Kemper nail getting the real tube amp/cab/mic tone, but we're not locked into an untweakable snapshot which those other guys try to mischaracterize about the Kemper as a last resort to save face

    Quote from meambobbo

    100% agree but on the flip side of that coin, the profiles dont HAVE to sound just like what the real rig sounded like. You can tweak them as though they are the real rig and you have a big window before the tone starts to deviate from what you can do with the real rig. So not only does the Kemper nail getting the real tube amp/cab/mic tone, but we're not locked into an untweakable snapshot which those other guys try to mischaracterize about the Kemper as a last resort to save face


    Is that really the criticism being lobbied at the KPA? I am honestly asking because I don't visit other forums. If that is the case that is just silly and misinformed.


    While I would agree the KPA may not offer the same level of granular tweaking as the alternative (almost to a fault) I hardly consider the KPA profiles to be a static snapshot. In fact one of my favorite rigs right now is based on a M. Britt profile where I basically tweaked the gain and EQ settings until I found my perfect tone.

    Husband, Father, Pajama Enthusiast

    Like 1

    Yeah when ppl ask ab kemper on the Fractal forum it always comes up. The ones that admit it sounds just like the amp then say but only for those exact settings, etc. And to some degree thats true - the KPA's gain and BMTP knobs arent going to 100% mirror the real amps. But they almost act like a small tweak will turn it into a bad sounding or "fake" amp which is not the case.

    Quote from mightypudge

    Is that really the criticism being lobbied at the KPA? I am honestly asking because I don't visit other forums. If that is the case that is just silly and misinformed.


    While I would agree the KPA may not offer the same level of granular tweaking as the alternative (almost to a fault) I hardly consider the KPA profiles to be a static snapshot. In fact one of my favorite rigs right now is based on a M. Britt profile where I basically tweaked the gain and EQ settings until I found my perfect tone.


    This is the critism from the few fanboys. As well as a few here say that tonematch is useless.
    Both forums have their bad seeds. None better then the other.
    Both units perform very well, and both would fit pretty much any need for anyone.
    AND both units can easilly be tweaked to sound exactly like the "real" thing.
    I just wish this idiotic bashing on both sides would stop. But hey, its the internet so who am I kidding...

    @okstrat - Well said...


    Another point I've really grown to admire is how Kemper continually improves it's basic technology model.


    For us end users, the sound(s) we originally invested in only get crisper and more functional as time goes on. Think about it, when was the last time you invested in something which only later improves via no cost upgrades! Surely beats the heck out of the otherwise cap and tube deterioration of old.

    there's a lot of level-headed people at the Fractal forum, but they can't outright call out the fanboys and start an argument in Kemper's favor, because they'll be censored and possibly banned.


    in all fairness, a Pod 2 can be tweaked to sound "like" the real thing, depending on your definition of like. We want INDISTINGUISHABLE from a blind A/B. IMO, the Fractal can definitely provide that for certain tones, but in many cases it doesn't. I think the Pod HD could as well, but only for a smaller amount of tones. Kemper gets it right about 95% of the time or higher, but there are places where it isn't quite there as well. But even if Fractal and Kemper got it right equal numbers of time, you still have to tweak the Fractal a bit more. And all the changes to the modeling in various FW revisions should be a clear indicator that Fractal is not up to snuff, and shouldn't convince anyone otherwise, until they demo A/B's vs. real amps.

    I love my Kemper but one area where Fractal is arguably ahead of the Kemper is updating the product though. For ages Kemper have been asked about more flexible FX routing etc and it just hasn't happened yet. I get the feeling the Kemper hasn't got the processor power for much more in the way of FX updates.

    I think you will be proven wrong about FX over time. Not sure about routing. You have to remember, too, that the Kemper is fairly new compared to the original Fractal Axe FX, which came out in 2006. It has taken 9 years and several hardware models to get to this point. The Kemper has regular updates, but they are on things that might not apply to some people, like the ability to create "merged" profiles. They also had to spend some time to develop Rig Manager. And now Pure Cab. The core pieces don't need fixing, so there's no need to update. But I agree that we are overdue for FX.


    I'm sure there's still plenty of unused DSP power in there, and Kemper has a roadmap on how to fill it. But they're not going to start throwing in features that may haunt them down the road where now they don't have enough DSP for some feature that may be more important than an older one that they would have to deprecate.

    Quote from meambobbo

    I'm sure there's still plenty of unused DSP power in there, and Kemper has a roadmap on how to fill it. But they're not going to start throwing in features that may haunt them down the road where now they don't have enough DSP for some feature that may be more important than an older one that they would have to deprecate.


    I sure hope you're right about the current KPA having DSP to spare. As a new Kemper user my #1 fear is that they release new hardware in the near future with a bunch of cool new features that I will absolutely need.


    I know it'll eventually happen. I just hope it's after I've paid off this one. :)

    Husband, Father, Pajama Enthusiast

    Like 1
    Quote from mightypudge

    I sure hope you're right about the current KPA having DSP to spare. As a new Kemper user my #1 fear is that they release new hardware in the near future with a bunch of cool new features that I will absolutely need.


    I know it'll eventually happen. I just hope it's after I've paid off this one. :)


    There's one tiny little piece of evidence that worries me a bit. That's the lag in some situations that comes with the latest beta.

    is this discussed in another thread? i'm not aware of any lag. if anything i feel like my KPA boots faster than it used to.


    i seem to remember CK drop a hint in some thread that they may eventually incorporate some form of stomp profiling, but i may have misread what he said. if that's true; however, there's got to be quite a bit of DSP to spare. CK has already mentioned that reverb will be getting some love in the future, and I think with the amount of clamor about assigning delay to other slots, I assume delay will also get an upgrade. This is all speculation, and who knows when to expect anything, but I'm not buying new gear while I wait patiently.

    Quote from meambobbo

    is this discussed in another thread? i'm not aware of any lag. if anything i feel like my KPA boots faster than it used to.


    i seem to remember CK drop a hint in some thread that they may eventually incorporate some form of stomp profiling, but i may have misread what he said. if that's true; however, there's got to be quite a bit of DSP to spare. CK has already mentioned that reverb will be getting some love in the future, and I think with the amount of clamor about assigning delay to other slots, I assume delay will also get an upgrade. This is all speculation, and who knows when to expect anything, but I'm not buying new gear while I wait patiently.


    Yes, the lag (not at boot, but in normal operation) that is a prolonged reaction time in some situations (e.g. you highlight the delay in order to tweak the parameters, the KPA takes noticably longer to show the delay settings page) has been mentioned in other threads.
    And no, it has not been mentioned that some sort of stomp profiling might be implimented. On the contrary, with the current hardware, it's impossible.

    i always thought it would be too intensive to run 2 profiles at once, as the stomp profiling constantly comes up. But I seem to remember a place where CK hinted that it might actually be something they would look at. I figure running two tube amp + cab/mic simulations simultaneously is definitely too much, but maybe a dumbed down version of the profiling engine for stomps could be possible. But trying to find that post, I found this:


    Profiling overdrive and distorion pedals...


    "I actually asked CK about this @ NAMM. It would take too much processing power to add a profiled stomp in front of a profiled amp. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. " From Dlaut.


    I can't find anything contrary, so I guess that's the final word on it. That's from Feb of this year.


    I will test out the lag issue - I understood it was different than boot - I was just saying it seems like the KPA may have some performance improvements, although I may be wrong. I would bet the lag issue you had is a bug, not a resource issue. From the things people were requesting for reverb, and for CK to say its being worked on makes me think there's gotta be room to spare. He is usually very conservative about adding parameters or new features. I get the impression his concerns have always been overcomplicating the KPA and turning it into the Axe FX, not saving DSP. Or maybe he has a roadmap and wants to make sure the DSP is there for any bigger features.