Be careful with the amp / company names

  • It might be helpful if Kemper themselves could give some advice on this matter, after all its their product that is being used to create the profiles in the first place
    i assume they would have sought legal advice around "profiling" when developing the product

  • Yes, and established paradigm would be ever so helpful. Even something as simple as Pig Latin or Spoonerism (a deceased relative of mine, Dr. Flook, was actually at the symposium when the term was coined due to Spooner's repeated indulgence therein), could be employed - IOW, a set of rules that guarantees a three-letter difference and that is easy to decode.

    On the legal thing, it's my considered opinion that a profile is not an amp - it weighs nothing, doesn't require maintenance and occupies no physical space. I agree that the look of a real amp and cab is styled, just like a car, and is the result of creative input. Whilst the sound is also the result of hard work, I don't believe one can copyright a sound - a sequence of notes, yes, but a sound? I don't think so, and if this is indeed possible, it's illogical as it'd render innumerable aspects of our lives impossible to navigate.

    I can't help but think that this must be tested in a court of law; I've seen too much to readily swallow the impression that the "stand-over tactics" referred to in this thread indicate anything other than the fact that the amp manufacturers are well past becoming nervous. The ACLU never sued any school in the States for teaching Christianity, but few dared do so due to the perceived threat of suits, even 'though it would have been perfectly legal. The parallels here are undeniable...

    ... unless this has been tested as I described, in which case, please ignore this silly old fart.

  • In the least if the Forum/ profilers could come up with a consensus on legally acceptable generic ( but recognizable) names , maybe that would take the pressure off and make different amps easier to locate , either commercial or free

    It seems Soundside had already started doing some of that. I'm seeing UKGold, Fernder, etc. My first reaction was "that's not very original" but this is a case where it would actually help if sellers clustered around the same names.

    Or another way is simply through site searches.

    Of course, something so easily circumvented will do nothing for the amp companies. They must be getting absolutely slammed with fewer people buying amps, and used amps hitting the second hand market. But like I said earlier, it's a complex issue. A lot of them (the boutiques) are themselves selling close variants of other companies' designs. And the Kemper is definitely taking the technology and sound-sculpting beyond what traditional amps can do.

  • Nice find, Joe. I forgot I was on the web as I was "here".

    Interesting read. In most cases, it's a sequence of sound events or notes, as I suspected.

    MGM's lion's roar doesn't render roaring for lions verboten... unless, of course, a renegade lion decides to emulate that roar and charge others for the privilege of listening to it. Or does it? I mean, if said lion's not pretending to be MGM and promoting movies, but simply making that sound, is that / should that be illegal?

    I'm still not clear when it comes to profiles. As I said, a profile is not an amp; it's a profile. It's not competing with an amp, strictly speaking; it's competing with other profiles for playability, compatibility with one's guitar, and yes, "authenticity" in many cases.

    Think I've already done my head in months ago thinking about this stuff, and I'm already regretting getting involved in this discussion. With your permission, Joe, I think I'll bow out and watch from the sidelines.

    Take care, mate.

  • @and44 Are you absolutely sure saying "Tried to replicate the sound off {brand name}" is still allowed?
    BTW I saw some really typical specal amp things, like knobs, faces etc. on your side as well..

    So If a seller can't use any typical thing, customers wouldn't by anything because they cant recognize the profiled amp.
    And maybe at the end the Kemper wouldn't exits anymore because everybody is afraid to profile an amp and to share it with other people :-(

    @skyhighrocks That will be are real problem for all sellers for sure. :-(

    @and44 I found All these illegaly things on your website you mentioned in your post before ;-)Like i said before it's almost impossible to take care on all these things because then customers wouldn't by anything because they cant recognize the profiled amp.

    To answer these 2.
    Yes its a bad situation for sellers, because well we are calling the real thing a fake name. thus confusing customers. manufactures are OK with this, because they cant do anything about it. - but remember they (manafacturer) needs to be on top (superior too) - so creating fake names helps us, helps them, and does NOT help the customer. - its a loss we have to deal with.

    Dont check my site, I have been here since the beginning, and therefore already have written permission to use some things (legal documents) some amps I was allowed to show. but still had to change the name. - I have done official packs for manufactures so Im allowed to use branding on those too. (although some things I need to still remove, its an ongoing battle)

    I had a Hugh legal; battle with Marshall. that almost went to court. but was settled at the end. because well.. I don't have a spare million in my pocket!. - I then seeked IP/Copyright legal protection and advice (expensive), and we worked out legally what we can do and what not. - they contacted all manufactures on my behalf hence what I said in previous post is absolute. but I will say this... if this is your business, then Its strongly recommend you go through legal channels and get covered anyway. liability/copyright/fair trading etc. I had too as im a LTD Company, it all costs a lot of money. but your safer with it. otherwise they can just remove you overnight and a lot LOT more. - however.. as every country is different in its legal terms. (albeit not much) but it is what it is.

    At the end of the day.. a Profile is just a Profile.. that is TOTALLY Irrelevant. - but its how you NAME that profile is important, and of course how you brand it on your own store. that is what they don't like.

  • Let's collect some new amp names, guys! Here are my suggestions
    Martial = Marshall
    Fox = Vox
    Sure = Suhr
    O-Ranch = Orange
    Huge Cat Car = Hughes & Kettner
    Sold Anus = Soldano
    Famous = Framus
    Angel = Engl
    Morgääähn (only german can understand this :-D )= Morgan
    Lazy = Laney
    Egg Eater = Egnater
    More = Mooer
    Cook or Cock = Koch
    Flux = Fuchs


  • Maybe some universal names, that all sellers can use... That would make it easier for us user (so we only would have to search for Marshall and Martial, not so many wordplay) to find Rigs in RM... :thumbup:

  • :P Not to be rebel who do not care about rules by default (what I am , actually) , but I can see on Kemper FB page they do not give a shit about all of this .
    They hang on the posts and status with the real amp names, photos etc. without hesitation ...

    Can anyone prove that some amp company sent any official document to any of commercial profile makers as a warning ?

    The whole internet community knows that pathetic and extremely unsuccessful , new Gibson CEO sent the warning letter to Tom Anderson Guitar Works, asking them to immediately stop with production of TAG Bulldog guitar, probably the most perfect LP guitar up to date .
    If Les Paul is still alive , he will make guitar like a Bulldog .
    Recessed bridge and pickups, new geometry for saving 2 kg in weight , straight strings headstock ,perfect tuning and amazing sound .
    The morons who manage Gibson today are too stupid to go so far , they even cannot repeat classic and already achieved Gibson quality from the past .
    Instead , they use the most cheapest Chinese parts to build the worse Gibson guitars ever (look at any 2015 model )
    That's why that character , who is , surprisingly , still on CEO duties , threatens with judicial process to legendary Tom Anderson .

    Do we have the same issue here ?
    Impotency of fat , lazy and useless new CEO's in famous and legendary amp factories ???

    Do not tell me this is about IP ...
    Kemper is here in the last 4 years , not from yesterday....
    4 years of not reacting is too much ...
    Axe have the same problem, they use amps names as well, and many other companies ..

    It is not about IP issue., period .
    It is the same issue as Gibson vs Tom Anderson .

    There are million of small and big companies producing single cut guitars , say like a Gibson Les Paul, but only TAG, Tokai and few others ,amongst hundreds of them received warning letter .

    Our respectable member here , Guitartone - or Lance ,has been chasing by faking Gibson lawyers personally in the last few years .
    They trying treat him like a criminal , just in a manner to stop people realising how much Tokai guitars are better than new Gibson's for much less price .
    Luckily , he is doing well, and those lawyers should find another victim for their dirty games.

    Ask your selves - Why ?

    So, do not worry , continue with your fantastic job of doing better profiles than amps sound it self .

    I cannot see any real issue here ,except cheap intimidation coming from useless new ceo's and their lawyers .

    Tom Andersons guitars >Kemper>QSC's and/or JP Le Roux amp and Mesa Cab

    Edited 9 times, last by Rescator ().

  • Stupid behaviour of manufacturers in panic.....

    The big companies like Marshall and Fender are mainly building the same amps for decades, they've never cared about new technologies or improvements. Either they release reissues of their old amps (often in worse quality) or they build cheap and low-quality amps made in Asia. I'm owning some very old amps like f.e. a Marshall Super Bass 100 W-top ('71), it's solid as a tank and sounds awesome, but this amp has been built 44 years ago. The next bigger step was made by Boogie with the Mark 1 (also 1971), a tuned Fender Princeton with a new pre-amp-section, creating distortion even at low levels. I'm owning a very old Mark 2, sound and building-quality are state-of-the-art. Since then not much happened and most of the newer high-quality tube-amps are boutique ones and not made by the big manufacturers. From my perspective the big names impaired their quality more and more. Compared to my Super Bass a new Marshall-top looks and feels like a toy.

    It's like building the same car for 50 years with no or just little improvements, but lacking quality. If a clever guy like CK is inventing new and up-to-date guitar-equipment with a tremendous potential, the big companies freak out and show their muscles, instead of learning their lesson and improving their business. Who will buy a heavy-weight tube-amp if there are better alternatives? Especially for a musician like me, living from studio-sessions and touring (using in-ears), the KPA is something like the holy grail. I get tons of excellent guitar-tones (even acoustic ones...) direct to desk with a tiny and reliable gear (KPA + remote). No need for carrying around several heavy amps, cabs, mikes, pedals, ect. ect.